[News] 2014 News (NO POLITICS)

[delispin25]

Bagheera, if you aren't going around mercilessly killing minorities, you're a terrible cop.

[Xard]

Wait, if it's "well duh" how is it not really significant? I would think the one implies the other.

People have been killed for most inane reasons over the course of history and human evil. So it isn't actually in itself big deal to find out people have been killed for having wrong colour of skin when they've been killed for far more inexplicable reasons too like stealing their organs to get magical powers or whatever.

Of course systematic racial genocide/slaughter is always big deal but some guy killing some other for being of different race is sadly dog-bites-man tier news and not something that will ever disappear.

[Nuclear Lunchbox]

It might be an interesting question, then, as to why we don't see massive groups of white people out on the streets protesting non-white killings of white people. They're on the internet everywhere; where are they IRL? (And I'm not talking about neo-Nazi "kick out the blacks" protests. I'm talking protests a la Ferguson.)

[Squigsquasher]

Because we understand the importance of civility?

[Bagheera]

It might be an interesting question, then, as to why we don't see massive groups of white people out on the streets protesting non-white killings of white people. They're on the internet everywhere; where are they IRL? (And I'm not talking about neo-Nazi "kick out the blacks" protests. I'm talking protests a la Ferguson.)

Mostly because it doesn't happen much. I'm trying to think of the last time I encountered a murder case, and I'm coming up empty. It's just not a thing.

(statutory rape, OTOH . . . don't get me started there. That happens all the time. But murder? Not so much.)

[Chuckman]

Incidents like the shoot of Mike Brown shed light on injustices in the system and draw attention to a deep seated cultural unease while violence directed at white people is usually perpetrated by individuals and not arms of the state and generally speaking only provides examples of individual depravity.

[Bagheera]

Incidents like the shoot of Mike Brown shed light on injustices in the system and draw attention to a deep seated cultural unease while violence directed at white people is usually perpetrated by individuals and not arms of the state and generally speaking only provides examples of individual depravity.

Honestly, IME as an LEO it doesn't happen much either way. I do see non-residents get lighter sentences because "ICE will deal with them", but apart from that the big ones rarely come up, and almost never in re: LEOs (never seen it one way or the other, actually). It's all about domestic violence, usually. That and DUI/drugs.

[delispin25]

Yeah, the Mike Brown shootings shed light on problems alright, like justifying looting, setting fires and acting like animals all because someone was killed.

[Chuckman]

I think the actual situation is more complicated than that.

[Squigsquasher]

It really isn't.

Basically the Ferguson fiasco can be summed up like this:

Mike Brown robs a store. Police confront him and tell him to surrender. He resists arrest and makes a move, and gets shot. Local population goes full chimpout/"FUCK THA PO-LEESE" murmering something about how an "innocent black youth" (a robber and a thug) had been "murdered" (shot whilst resisting arrest). Left-wing media jumps on the bandwagon and makes it into an issue about racism. Local population goes on a rampage, and in accordance with the protest being about racism and police brutality, they proceed to...lott a bunch of stores and set things on fire (and also attack a few reporters and bystanders). People still defend them because something something oppression (bear in mind most of the stores being lotted and burned were either owned by blacks or another minority) and condemn people who criticize the rioting.

Just goes to show the stupid things people will say to avoid appearing "racist". Honestly this reminds me of the London riots we had not too long ago, which was ostensibly about racism but was more about having an excuse to go nuts and steal some TVs.

TLDR: Ferguson "protesters" are scum.

[Bagheera]

I think the actual situation is more complicated than that.

Well, yes, of course it is. White LEOs don't want to deal with it since they aren't in a position to address it, and non-white citizens are frustrated since there's nothing they can do about it. The system itself is the enemy, and no one knows how best to confront it. LEOs know it's fucked up, but what are they supposed to do? It's out of their hands. And citizens are obviously fucked. So who can change things? The elite, supposedly, but good luck getting them to give a shit. So the whites are earning a paycheck and the blacks are getting shot and everyone's like "is this really the way things are supposed to work?"

But no one who matters hears, because re-elections and such.

Re: Protesters: It's a lot more complex than that. Basically, people resort to looting/riots when they have no other options. It's what happens when their tolerance has run out, when they've been screwed by the system one time too many. It's not meant to be productive -- it's meant to be an expression of their frustration and rage. They've tried tolerance. They've tried turning the other cheek, and it didn't work. So now, they're left with childish, violent reactions. And it sucks, and they know it, but there's nothing else they can do, because we've ensured they have no other options. That is why riots are necessary for social progress -- they're the last resort of the underclass, brought into play when all other options have failed.

[pwhodges]

Re-elections in which the same elite get voted back into place.

[Rosenakahara]

Sorry what does LEO stand for again? google isn't helping

[Chuckman]

Law Enforcement Officer.

I admit when looking at something like Ferguson, the vast complexity of the problem quickly becomes overwhelming. You can start by asking "Why does a 70% black city have mostly white elected officials and police?" and write a book for an answer.

This passage from David Simon's the corner drives to the heart of the issue with the way this is being handled:

That's the myth of it, the required lie that allows us to render our judgments. Parasites, criminals, dope fiends, dope peddlers, whores--when we can ride past them at Fayette and Monroe, car doors locked, our field of vision cautiously restricted to the road ahead, then the long journey into darkness is underway. Pale-skinned hillbillies and hard-faced yos, toothless white trash and gold-front gangsters--when we can glide on and feel only fear, we're well on the way. And if, after a time, we can glimpse the spectacle of the corner and manage nothing beyond loathing and contempt, then we've arrived at last at that naked place where a man finally sees the sense in stretching razor wire and building barracks and directing cattle cars into the compound.

It's a reckoning of another kind, perhaps, and one that becomes a possibility only through the arrogance and certainty that so easily accompanies a well-planned and well-tended life. We know ourselves, we believe in ourselves; from what we value most, we grant ourselves the illusion that it's not chance in circumstance, that opportunity itself isn't the defining issue. We want the high ground; we want our own worth to be acknowledged. Morality, intelligence, values--we want those things measured and counted. We want it to be about Us.

Yes, if we were down there, if we were the damned of the American cities, we would not fail. We would rise above the corner. And when we tell ourselves such things, we unthinkably assume that we would be consigned to places like Fayette Street fully equipped, with all the graces and disciplines, talents and training that we now posses. Our parents would still be our parents, our teachers still our teachers, our broker still our broker. Amid the stench of so much defeat and despair, we would kick fate in the teeth and claim our deserved victory. We would escape to live the life we were supposed to live, the life we are living now. We would be saved, and as it always is in matters of salvation, we know this as a matter of perfect, pristine faith.

Why? The truth is plain:

We were not born to be niggers.

People need to step back from the actions of individuals here and look at the interactions of systems. That is ultimately what this is about.

[Bagheera]

People need to step back from the actions of individuals here and look at the interactions of systems. That is ultimately what this is about.

OMG, thank you for telling it like it is. I am too lazy to make the effort, but thank you for stepping up. You remind me of the truth of my own position, and that is worthwhile, even if only to a small degree.

[Merridian]

Re: Protesters: It's a lot more complex than that. Basically, people resort to looting/riots when they have no other options. It's what happens when their tolerance has run out, when they've been screwed by the system one time too many. It's not meant to be productive -- it's meant to be an expression of their frustration and rage.

Assuming that their rage is justified, I could to some degree understand rioting being a justifiable action. The looting on the other hand is purely opportunistic theft; it isn't something that can be hand-waved away with "they're mad and disenfranchised".

Also, the stores being destroyed in these riots and lootings are largely small businesses and franchise chains owned and operated by people who live in the community. Not only is the whole ordeal counterproductive, it's idiotic. This clear expression of their frustration and rage is only making their ordeal even worse--they're shooting themselves in the foot.

[Bagheera]

Assuming that their rage is justified, I could to some degree understand rioting being a justifiable action. The looting on the other hand is purely opportunistic theft; it isn't something that can be hand-waved away with "they're mad and disenfranchised".

The issue isn't "is the looting justified?" because of course it isn't. The issue is "is there a reason this is happening?" and the answer is yes, there is. It isn't just about petty theft; rather it's a petty response to a systemic problem, and that's what needs to be addressed.

It's easy to be judgmental when it's not your kids who are being shot.

[caragnafog dog]

It's easy to be judgmental when it's not your kids who are being shot.

And when your businesses aren't being looted.

[Bagheera]

And when your businesses aren't being looted.

Ask the guy with the dead kid if he cares.

[Merridian]

Baghs, if a looter doesn't care about destroying my business and/or livelihood, why should I care that someone utterly unrelated to me shot his kid? You're only proving my point that they're shooting themselves in the foot.