[News] 2013 News (NO POLITICS)

Yeah. You read right. This is for everything that doesn't have anything to do with Eva.

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NemZ
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Postby NemZ » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:48 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:It might, but remember that you're only getting part of the story.


Yes, but the secrecy around such matters means I have no way to know if these potential abuses aren't actual. We only ever hear about such data collection when someone points out yet another instance of the alphabet agencies stretching or outright breaking the limits of their authority and subverting attempts at civilian oversight. The only recourse is to trust that the people with access to the data are using it properly, but my faith in the government has never been lower than it is now.

While I'm inclined to agree with the results they do strike me as overly broad and the sort of thing that needs further investigation.


Well of course there are always outliers, but anecdotal evidence doesn't trump consistent data trends.

As far as the reasons for this go, I suspect that the highly intelligent are more likely to ignore nonreligious cultural biases as well because the unintelligent are more likely to just do what everyone else seems to be doing. I further suspect that the highly intelligent with religious beliefs have their faith rooted in entirely different ways than their peers, and likewise that unintelligent atheists are just in it as a form of rebellion, parroting a different group unquestioningly rather than really thinking things out personally.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:59 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Yes, but the secrecy around such matters means I have no way to know if these potential abuses aren't actual. We only ever hear about such data collection when someone points out yet another instance of the alphabet agencies stretching or outright breaking the limits of their authority and subverting attempts at civilian oversight. The only recourse is to trust that the people with access to the data are using it properly, but my faith in the government has never been lower than it is now.


I don't blame you, but you can't properly exercise such oversight without knowing how the system works, and you can't know that without being part of it.

You shouldn't trust the government just because, but you should likewise realize that the oversight you seek might not take the forms you expect. That doesn't mean it isn't there.

Well of course there are always outliers, but anecdotal evidence doesn't trump consistent data trends.


It's not just anecdotal, though. Identifying certified geniuses who have religious inclinations is a trivial exercise, as is identifying atheists who are fucking idiots (or even just so blind to reality that their intelligence doesn't matter; as an example listening to Dawkins talk about religion is physically painful, and I say that as an atheist!).

As far as the reasons for this go, I suspect that the highly intelligent are more likely to ignore nonreligious cultural biases as well because the unintelligent are more likely to just do what everyone else seems to be doing. I further suspect that the highly intelligent with religious beliefs have their faith rooted in entirely different ways than their peers, and likewise that unintelligent atheists are just in it as a form of rebellion, parroting a different group unquestioningly rather than really thinking things out personally.


All of this is likely true, but it just emphasizes the fact that generalizing about the topic is unwise. And of course, we need studies that address the topic in ways that go beyond the three big sky god religions.
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Postby NemZ » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:15 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I don't blame you, but you can't properly exercise such oversight without knowing how the system works, and you can't know that without being part of it.


That's the very root of the problem, and can only lead to questions of "who watches the watchmen?"

All of this is likely true, but it just emphasizes the fact that generalizing about the topic is unwise.


The ARTICLE generalizes to drive page views with controversy, but the science isn't bullshit just because of the halfassed sensationalism with which it is presented.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:22 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:That's the very root of the problem, and can only lead to questions of "who watches the watchmen?"


It goes deeper than that. "How do we watch the watchmen without compromising their mission?" Don't think we don't struggle with this, because we do. There's no easy way to strike that balance.

The ARTICLE generalizes to drive page views with controversy, but the science isn't bullshit just because of the halfassed sensationalism with which it is presented.


The science itself is halfassed at this point. We need more research before we can even begin to comment intelligently on the matter.
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Postby soul.assassin » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:02 pm

View Original PostCatamari wrote:I own a 12 gauge. I can't see most of the armchair activists here in the US actually taking to armed protests. Most will turn tail and run.


In a totalitarian government, one gets to see the barrel of a gun. So, hearing all the FUD about the NSA, do I feel oppressed? Do I have to watch over my shoulder? Or that CCTV camera right over me?

I have nothing that interests them, nor I possess anything that would cause the mobilization of their agencies with a battering ram on my door.

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Postby arkiel » Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:14 pm

View Original PostNemZ wrote:Agreed. And I notice this is all about internet traffic, no mention of the sweeping collection of domestic phone records which presumably might also include all sorts of internet activity in this modern age of smart phones.


That's because domestic phone records are already protected from warrantless surveillance by statute. You need a court order to get them (not an actual warrant, but still something).

That said, its common knowledge that the NSA (well, the tech was attributed to the FBI and DHS at the time) have access to technology that can monitor voice communications. I'd like to think access to telecommunications has in some way been limited since I read that report, but I can't remember reading anything about it.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

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Postby CJD » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:06 pm

View Original Postsoul.assassin wrote:I have nothing that interests them, nor I possess anything that would cause the mobilization of their agencies with a battering ram on my door.


Not at the moment, maybe, but who's to say it'll stay that way?
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Postby Tribblepoo » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:03 am

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Postby Squigsquasher » Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:29 am



:shinchair:

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Postby pwhodges » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:10 am


the news report wrote:Gilbert did not report the incident to the police, and says the family will probably ditch the device permanently.

"Throw it away rather than set a stronger password"... Sounds as well-advised as that govt department that ditched all its computers and even mice to fix a virus problem.
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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:17 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:The science itself is halfassed at this point. We need more research before we can even begin to comment intelligently on the matter.

NemZ, this was what I meant when I uttered the phrase, "bullshit science." Besides, I know plenty of religious people that are a hell of a lot smarter than I am, and I'm a proud Atheist. Saying that Atheists are smarter than religious people is an overly broad and offensive statement.

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Postby soul.assassin » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:47 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:Not at the moment, maybe, but who's to say it'll stay that way?


I no longer live in a police state, as we're past the days when a dictatorship ate up billions of dollars in funds. Unless there are definite recurring signs of oppression such as outright military and police abuses, draconian laws and restricted rights to free speech and other liberties, for now we're stable but everyone in my country are still on their toes, knowing better to be prudent and wishing no repeat of past horrors.

Any attempt at reviving even the slightest hint of a possible martial law or trying to curtail civil liberties will be actively opposed.

It pays to be vigilant to maintain the freedoms we enjoy.

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Postby arkiel » Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:47 pm

View Original Postsoul.assassin wrote:I no longer live in a police state, as we're past the days when a dictatorship ate up billions of dollars in funds. Unless there are definite recurring signs of oppression such as outright military and police abuses, draconian laws and restricted rights to free speech and other liberties, for now we're stable but everyone in my country are still on their toes, knowing better to be prudent and wishing no repeat of past horrors.

Any attempt at reviving even the slightest hint of a possible martial law or trying to curtail civil liberties will be actively opposed.

It pays to be vigilant to maintain the freedoms we enjoy.


Yes, it does. It also takes a lot of effort that the general population will not necessarily possess forever. Maintaining widespread political engagement is hard. Actively opposing the erosion of your liberties will get harder over time. In a generation, the constituents of the democratic will that forged your current situation will be a minority.

Democracy is hard. Being a part of democracy means never sitting back and being satisfied with the status quo because the government is not presently eroding your own personal freedoms.

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Postby soul.assassin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:45 am

If necessary, we will overthrow a dictator again.

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Postby ZapX » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:54 am

There's a new species of Carnivora. Apparently it was right in front of us the whole time.

http://www.nature.com/news/cute-mammal-masqueraded-as-relative-for-a-century-1.13565
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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:32 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23714896

Chinese zoo tries to pass off a shaggy dog as a lion.
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Postby soul.assassin » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:09 pm

View Original PostUrsusArctos wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23714896

Chinese zoo tries to pass off a shaggy dog as a lion.


Also, the place looks more like a mess, with duct tape on the signage.

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Postby cyharding » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:05 pm

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Postby drinian » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:43 am


Much as I dislike Best Buy, at least they responded in the most reasonable way possible:

"A few stores were affected and the boxes were removed immediately," Best Buy spokesperson Jon Sandler told ABC News. "We are flattered that Best Buy is so top of mind for Mr. Plastic Jesus, and are happy that he presumably had the opportunity to witness our expert Blue Shirts and Geek Squad members in action during his visits. Hopefully he also had the chance to check out our fabulous back to school deals."
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Postby Alaska Slim » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:30 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:You shouldn't trust the government just because, but you should likewise realize that the oversight you seek might not take the forms you expect.

There's also the possibility that abuse occurs in good faith. The NSA continues to do something they've always done, as since it's never seem to raise alarms with their overseers before, they assume it has been rubber stamped, and use the silence as an umbrella excuse. When in actuality, said overseers are too flooded by their last crop of reports to watch anything closely enough.
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