[Music] The Grand Music Discussion Thread [2]

[ran1]

Animal Collective has too much indie cred at this point to be mistaken for anything but the raw manifestation of hipsterdom.

I'd buy that in 2005 when they only had like 2 albums out, but AC is an institution now. My Girls has 7 million views on youtube.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

I'm not talking musically. I'm just talking about the fact that they're all dressed up as animals.

I had a friend who was actually disappointed to learn that only one member of AC was named after an animal.

In completely unrelated news, why am I just finding out about "Bubble Pop" right now? My Korean friends are slacking.

[Fazmotron]

RADIOHEAD

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Radiohead are really good. They used to be one of my favorite bands, but I'm not as into them as I used to be. That's not to say anything about their music, my tastes are just changing. Probably for the worse, since I'm enjoying stuff like "Bubble Pop."

[robersora]

I'm really into Radiohead, but my big fandom-days are over too... Still, live they are one of the best bands around.

Animal Collective is a nice band, maybe a bit overrated... Sometimes I think, if they would just throw out a lot of that noise it wouldn't be that new anymore.... Nevertheless, I very much enjoyed Merrywater Post Pavillion and Centipede Hz.

Now to something completely different: Goddess Etsuko Yakushimaru has finally decided to put some new music into the the tube, and on CD respectively. Of course it's not just music, but it's accompanied by lots of multi-media-fancy stuff. Like Videos that are so unique! Aaaawww, I just love Hipster-Etsuko!
Well, Yami Yami is a great song, really love it; but I'm a bit dissapoint by the Cornelius collaboration.... I somehow expected it to be more... But maybe it's a slowburner.

[Blue Monday]

Big Radiohead fan here as well, definitely one of my most favourite bands alongside Converge, speaking of which...

NEW CONVERGE LEAKED. DOWNLOADING NOW. HURRY UP, FUCK~

Edit: Converge - All We Love We Leave Behind


10/10.

I'm sure I'll rave on about it at length later, haha.

[Quadhonk]

I enjoy Radiohead. Never bought any of their CD's though. My favorite modern day band is probably MUSE. Although, I haven't really checked out their new album yet.

[Xard]

lol

I knew you'd say that.

crying_scaruffi.jpg

Of course there's always a revisionist contrarian or two on every matter but one Pierro doesn't change consensus - and to be honest I don't give a shit about Scaruffi in general as his elaborate revisionist histories and high brow criticisms often strike me as little more than rationalisation for his own tastes and prejudices while not really supporting these prejudices with at least semi-interesting philosophical arguments like all classics of aesthetics have done at least in some form.

It's kinda like when french realists and soviet montagists went at each other's throats due to their differing ideas on cinema's "medium specificity" and in process were willing to scrap away big parts of film canon that didn't fit their limited mold of what constitutes meaningfully made cinema. Both were full of shit in the end, of course.

Difference between Christgau and Scaruffi is that Christgau's reviews are fun and witty and he doesn't pretend his hot buttons and prejudices are anything more than that while Scaruffi is just conceited ass. This is why I rather read Christgau bashing a record I like than Scaruffi praising something I like.

(...on that note I don't know why I always return to these two, probably because out of all critics active today they're only two to really have presence in the scene as a whole as individual voices)

Animal Collective has too much indie cred at this point to be mistaken for anything but the raw manifestation of hipsterdom.

One of the main reasons why I avoided them like plague for long long time.

re:Radiohead

Pablo Honey is rubbish, The Bends-Ok Computer-Kid A trilogy is fuckwin, Amnesiac half-good half-rubbish, Hail to the Thief yawn, In Rainbows delicious and I still don't know what to think of King of Limbs apart from Yorke's retard dance being the best retard dance in ages.

[Azathoth]

I knew you'd say that.

Good. If Tool have a musical appeal it continues to escape me, but I surely wouldn't associate it with the guitars rather than with Keenan's attention-whoring.

Of course there's always a revisionist

I'm not saying he's right. My own opinion, as I said, is that all bands tend to be bad; and if they aren't bad to begin with, they'll get there given enough time. There's about five to ten good Beatles songs, no good Beatles albums, and a whole lot of Beatles image - and I can't think of any pop group of their time (and probably not today) that did better than that. Pop is like that, and the output of musical groups as a whole tends to be like that, at best, which in turn is enough to make me wonder why they're even a thing.

(Although that said, solo artists, despite having presumably greater focus, drive, and merit, tend to go down bad roads after about five albums, the point at which you might have expected a band to collapse and spare the audience the trouble of ignoring them.)

(...on that note I don't know why I always return to these two, probably because out of all critics active today they're only two to really have presence in the scene as a whole as individual voices)

Who else is there? The reason why Christgau can name himself Dean of American Rock Critics, even in the tongue-in-cheek way that he does, is because there aren't any American rock critics: there's "music journalism" (lol), and there's demographic pandering a la Pitchfork. And back when he got started, I don't know if there was any real equivalent to the latter. Scaruffi is a pretentious ass, sure, but how many people have actually made an effort to listen to and seriously assess their opinion of the quality of the amount of music that he's listened to? Or put another way, what kind of asshole actually listened to Klaus Schulze all the way through 1995, and isn't he deserving of at least a little respect as he grandstands his way through half a century of troll opinions?

The Bends-Ok Computer-Kid A trilogy is fuckwin,

one out of three ain't bad.

unrelatedly, I just caught Mort Garson's Ataraxia - The Unexplained, which was a ton of fun. dem 70s synths, 4spooky8me

[Xard]

Good. If Tool have a musical appeal it continues to escape me, but I surely wouldn't associate it with the guitars rather than with Keenan's attention-whoring.

tbh that post of mine was probably influenced by fact one of the main musical themes (of which I'm quite fond of though I initially hated it) from my second favourite finnish album of last decade is influenced by Schism.

anyway, as far as boringness and gitah go Tool is somewhat less boring than Meshuggah which counts for something at least.

I'm not saying he's right. My own opinion, as I said, is that all bands tend to be bad; and if they aren't bad to begin with, they'll get there given enough time. There's about five to ten good Beatles songs, no good Beatles albums, and a whole lot of Beatles image - and I can't think of any pop group of their time (and probably not today) that did better than that. Pop is like that, and the output of musical groups as a whole tends to be like that, at best, which in turn is enough to make me wonder why they're even a thing.

(Although that said, solo artists, despite having presumably greater focus, drive, and merit, tend to go down bad roads after about five albums, the point at which you might have expected a band to collapse and spare the audience the trouble of ignoring them.)

geez, my 200+ reaction image collection had no face fitting for this. I thought you were pulling my leg with "bands are bad" thing. Uhh, I don't think I have anything to say here, really.

I should start a "things EGF users say" file and even in company of ludicruous quotes such paper would hold that would stand out for originality.

Scaruffi is a pretentious ass, sure, but how many people have actually made an effort to listen to and seriously assess their opinion of the quality of the amount of music that he's listened to? Or put another way, what kind of asshole actually listened to Klaus Schulze all the way through 1995, and isn't he deserving of at least a little respect as he grandstands his way through half a century of troll opinions?

It's not that I don't give respect for "half a century of troll opinions" and the like (though really, I may get called masochist but listening to Klaus Schulze all the way through to 1995 isn't something I necessarily admire in similar sense...), I just don't consider him the kind of authority some retarded /mu/tants actually do. Not that I think you do that but the part I replied to was written in that mold anyway.

Speaking of which, is there really such thing as crying scaruffi jpg?

[CaasiBoy]

First Godspeed You! Black Emperor album in over a decade anyone?

Also, anyone else think that Grizzly Bear's Shields is album of the year?

[Azathoth]

It's not that I don't give respect for "half a century of troll opinions" and the like (though really, I may get called masochist but listening to Klaus Schulze all the way through to 1995 isn't something I necessarily admire in similar sense...)

My point is that it takes a special kind of retarded to listen to anything Schulze did after the shitfest that is X, let alone everything Schulze did after said shitfest, and such outspoken retardation deserves the same degree of respect one gives to people who star in fetish porn or people who make anime: "wow, you sure did think that bullshit a valuable use of your life, didn't you? that must have taken some not-insignificant degree of courage, mingled with stupidity." The difference is that considerable numbers of people are making fetish porn (or anime), and not many people are spending forty years of their lives writing up and digitizing their opinions on shitty music.

I just don't consider him the kind of authority some retarded /mu/tants actually do.

What's an authority even mean in this context? He has clearly listened to a lot of music and wishes other people to know his opinions on it. Big fucking deal. That's what critics do. I don't think he's "right" about music and everyone else is "wrong". Nor does anyone else; it's simply easy to troll people who like krautrock by implying that their taste is copied from him, and easy to troll people who don't like krautrock by implying that they should copy their taste from him. Why is this the case? Because he is somewhat notorious for spending forty years of his life writing up and digitizing his opinions on shitty music. Nobody's saying he's been sent by god to guide us into the way of truth, least of all me, but the point is that the only difference between random troll and esteemed critic, "authority" if you like, is how long, loud, consistent, and public your deranged ravings are.

in other news, things people say on 4chan should probably be taken less seriously the more seriously they appear to be intended.

Speaking of which, is there really such thing as crying scaruffi jpg?

since 1983 in Paint

post #561680 (2012), 6.5/10

Despite having flooded the forums with a lot of awful posts, Azathoth was one of the most significant, influential and original shitposters of the 2010s. During his first decade alone, Azathoth pioneered a number of trollposts that would become popular during the following thirty seconds, from calling everything in the universe "shit" to arguing that Asuka Langley Soryu is literally the devil. But, mainly, Azathoth penned the first aesthetic of no-effort shitposting, an aesthetic that inherited from Ran the sense of masturbatory insanity, from Xard the sense of self-loathing, and from TDSA the constant babble of utter nonsense. In many ways, post #561680 created both the archetype and the reference standard for "shit post". Azathoth's recipe included hatred of pop music, hatred of rock music, hatred of anything popular, hatred of art crit, hatred of art in general, hatred of life, and perhaps even Michelangelo's "Sistine Chapel". also the Beatles suck.

[Xard]

My point is that it takes a special kind of retarded to listen to anything Schulze did after the shitfest that is X, let alone everything Schulze did after said shitfest, and such outspoken retardation deserves the same degree of respect one gives to people who star in fetish porn or people who make anime: "wow, you sure did think that bullshit a valuable use of your life, didn't you? that must have taken some not-insignificant degree of courage, mingled with stupidity." The difference is that considerable numbers of people are making fetish porn (or anime), and not many people are spending forty years of their lives writing up and digitizing their opinions on shitty music.

yeah, yeah, I see what you mean.

What's an authority even mean in this context? He has clearly listened to a lot of music and wishes other people to know his opinions on it. Big fucking deal. That's what critics do. I don't think he's "right" about music and everyone else is "wrong". Nor does anyone else; it's simply easy to troll people who like krautrock by implying that their taste is copied from him, and easy to troll people who don't like krautrock by implying that they should copy their taste from him. Why is this the case? Because he is somewhat notorious for spending forty years of his life writing up and digitizing his opinions on shitty music. Nobody's saying he's been sent by god to guide us into the way of truth, least of all me, but the point is that the only difference between random troll and esteemed critic, "authority" if you like, is how long, loud, consistent, and public your deranged ravings are.

in other news, things people say on 4chan should probably be taken less seriously the more seriously they appear to be intended.

While I agree with what you say in principle I can't bring myself to believe everyone exercises the kind of "enlightened self-infantilization" for sake of the big internet game when I see countless people go full retard on anonymous boards. In fact I believe - no doubt conceitedly - I've developed somewhat trustworthy ability to overall separate the players from genuine fucktards and there's more than enough of those on /mu/ too.

I mean sure, it's much more comfortable to believe everyone blasting jazz as a whole and then turning to Steve Albini's rants for additional backup are just trolling (I reckon for most this is the case) but I can't bring myself to do that, all cases considered.

scaruffi crying.jpg

ehh, that. I was thinking of a real one.

post #561680 (2012), 6.5/10

Despite having flooded the forums with a lot of awful posts, Azathoth was one of the most significant, influential and original shitposters of the 2010s. During his first decade alone, Azathoth pioneered a number of trollposts that would become popular during the following thirty seconds, from calling everything in the universe "shit" to arguing that Asuka Langley Soryu is literally the devil. But, mainly, Azathoth penned the first aesthetic of no-effort shitposting, an aesthetic that inherited from Ran the sense of masturbatory insanity, from Xard the sense of self-loathing, and from TDSA the constant babble of utter nonsense. In many ways, post #561680 created both the archetype and the reference standard for "shit post". Azathoth's recipe included hatred of pop music, hatred of rock music, hatred of anything popular, hatred of art crit, hatred of art in general, hatred of life, and perhaps even Michelangelo's "Sistine Chapel". also the Beatles suck.

[Azathoth]

ehh, that. I was thinking of a real one.

Now who's the critic?

Sadly we are not likely to find any such picture, since the only source of pictures of Scaruffi is, well, Scaruffi. You'll just have to make do with my patrician-tier neo-Dadaist visual art. 9.5/10.

[soul.assassin]

Currently reading:
http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/57109/k-pop

[Bomby von Bombsville]

The guy got the k-pop fans being a "cult" right. I'm constantly told that K-pop is superior to pop music from the rest of the world. However in my recent excursions into listening to it voluntarily, along with being shown music videos for two semesters of Korean class, I can really only find that, though some of it is pretty damn good, it is NOT inherently superior. I think one major telling factor is that one of Girls' Generations' best songs ("Run Devil Run") was originally written for and recorded by Ke$ha, who ended up not using it on her album, and thus the rights were sold to SM Entertainment.

K-pop won't break into America. Any chance it had was killed by "Gangnam Style." Simply put, "Gangnam Style" hit it big because Americans were able to point at it and say "Hey, look at those silly Asians!" This is what Americans will associate with K-pop. A sellout concert for a K-pop group in LA happens because... it's in LA, where there's a huge Asian population.

It's also worth noting that groups like Wonder Girls and Girls' Generation failed when they tried to make it in America. You can look at various factors: for one thing, Girls' Generation's English first single, "The Boys," was dreadful, but the ultimate question is going to be who these groups are marketed toward. A girl group can make it in Korea because you can market it toward young men who'd take to the sex appeal as well as the girls who are already into that kind of music. Not that simple in the US, though, since you're losing that male half of the population for whom it's socially unacceptable to listen to the kind of bubblegum pop music they do.

Look throughout recent pop music history, and who are more successful in the US: girl groups or boy bands? We can take TLC and Destiny's Child out of the equation, since at their core they were R&B artists who were able to cross over into the pop charts. Ultimately, that really only leaves the flash-in-the-pan success of Spice Girls, who were really just riding the wave of the "girl power" fad.

As far as Korean boy bands go... I guess they might have a better shot of making it in America. I still have my doubts, though. I don't listen to boy bands, so I can't really say. Honestly, I think a female solo artist would have the best shot of making it here.

Racial politics really do come into play. Asians and Asian Americans are still nearly invisible in the US media. Seriously, name 5 popular Asian American actors. I've got all day. Of course, there's always the possibility that a K-pop invasion could change that, but...

I don't know. Now that I've said all that, K-pop will be absolutely gigantic next year, and I'd actually be happy to see that. I'm not placing any money on it, though.

[Quadhonk]

I just got a new car last week. Before, the car I had owned didn't have a working cd player for nearly two years. I almost forgot what it was like to drive around listening to my music. I have the whole Seatbelts collection and I've been jamming out ever since I got my new ride. It's nice to feel class being injected back into my life after so long, I missed it.

[Oz]

@Bomby: Making it in America is less relevant for Korean groups these days since the market isn't that impressive in the US anymore. Japan has by far the strongest physical sales these days and lots of Korean groups have been invading Japan recently. Of the girl groups, Girls' Generation and Kara have made quite a lot of money in Japan as they seem more mature and independent than the general image of Japanese idols who are seen as pandering to their target demographic*. The male groups have a harder time thanks to Johnny's Entertainment's domination in the field and Korean groups are hardly that different from their Japanese equivalents. If there's any money to be made with pop through old-fashioned means you have to do it in Japan. For idols Japan may be a harder nut to crack (than Korea or the US) because the industry and the fandom is much more complex and unpredictable than anywhere else in the world.

* = although the truth is that both Japanese and Korean do essentially the same in just a different way.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

Right, which is probably why Girls' Generation went to Japan first, and did much better there than they did in the US.

Japanese groups breaking into the US is a different animal altogether. It looks like Universal might be trying to break Perfume into the US, but if "Spending All My Time" is any indication, they should... NOT try to break Perfume into the US.

[InstrumentalityOne]

Every day I pray for Chinese AKB spin-offs