Evangelion 1.11/2.22 - this is (not) just a summary

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby gwern » Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:57 pm

View Original PostEvangelionFan wrote:Have they referred to him simply as Kaworu, or with a family name as well? If not, I anticipate Nagisanami. Lol?


I don't expect it. I mean, it destroys the elaborate pun that his name is, and he has no particular connection to the Power Puffs, I mean, the 3 female pilots.

(As well expect Shinji to be renamed 'Shinji Ikanami'!)

View Original Postqu4d wrote:At Shinji. At the aquarium he mentions that the ocean was still blue when he was born.


The oceans are pretty damn big. You ever fly or sail an entire ocean? They're mindboggling big. It could take years for the water to reach poisoned levels.

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Re: q´s "this is (not) just a summary" thread

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Postby Napul » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:31 pm

View Original Postqu4d wrote:1st child - Rei Ayanami
Origin: Japan. No official background given. She is a clone of Yui Ikari.


I wrote a rather "She has probably something to do with Yui Ikari."
After all, nothing is more certain.
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Postby Fireball » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:33 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:By the way, Asuka's name in NME is "Asuka Langley Shikinami" instead of "Soryu", you might want to add that.


do we know the reason why they changed her name? i wondered about that.


nice thread btw.
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Postby gwern » Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:46 pm

View Original PostFireball wrote:do we know the reason why they changed her name? i wondered about that.


nice thread btw.


We emphatically do not. The heated speculation runs the gamut from Anno indulging his WWII naval hobby, to a deliberate (but inconsequential) troll, to a signal that Shikinami is some sort of clone or twin or fragment of Soryu.

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Postby Azathoth » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:11 pm

View Original PostFireball wrote:do we know the reason why they changed her name?


To fit the Ayanami-Makinami trend, or at least that's the obvious answer. The question is why there needed to be a trend in the first place. I've heard a rather nice argument that it's going to end in the revelation that they all share a nature somehow (as in being three of the Adams) but more likely it's just Anno making yet another derpish naval history joke: Shikinami and Ayanami (sister ships, by the way) were both late 20s ships that lasted until WWII and then both bought it (Ayanami at Guadalcanal and Shikinami I don't remember where - by a sub, if I remember the first time I read this over); Makinami was built after the war had already started and got wiped out within a couple years of being launched.

Shikinami actually survived the longest, if memory serves; but I think the point is more that Makinami was a newer model of destroyer - and thus Mari is a new model of Eva girl. I would say it's rather misogynistic but honestly it's so obviously a MONEY MONEY MONEY ploy that I can't even criticize it on any other grounds.
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Postby Deyno » Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:48 pm

I know the angels have no names. but I think they have characteristics of other angels:

3th Angel - Sandalfon + Gaghiel
4th Angel - Sachiel
5th Angel - Shamshel
6th Angel - Ramiel
7th Angel - Israfel + Matariel
8th Angel - Sahaquiel
9th Angel - Bardiel + Leliel
10th Angel - Zeruel + Armisael

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Postby Azathoth » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:27 pm

View Original PostDeyno wrote:I know the angels have no names. but I think they have characteristics of other angels:


Nobody's debating that; it's just that we can't say for sure what they're named anymore.

View Original PostDeyno wrote:9th Angel - Bardiel + Leliel


Surely you mean Arael here?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:37 pm

View Original PostOrnette wrote:I didn't make these transcripts, maybe SSD can verify.


Yep, the Newtype transcripts do say "Kaworu Nagisa". Also: the Entry File 1 book says his name then describes him as "Mysterious boy" while the 1.11 booklet (translated from the Japanese 1.11 booklet I'd imagine) that comes with Funimation's release says: "Kaworu Nagisa. The mysterious boy with Seele. It seems he knows something about Shinji... "

Regarding Shikinami/Makinami etc, all we have so far is this from Yuko Miyamura, Asuka's seiyuu: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=377227#377227
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Postby KnightmareX13 » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:44 pm

View Original Postqu4d wrote:In the NGE canon, not Rebuild.

True that was from the NGE canon but from my booklet from 1.11 it states that 2I happened 15 years before the events in the 1.11, also it states that Shinji is fourteen years old, born 1 year after 2I.
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Postby qu4d » Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:46 pm

View Original PostKnightmareX13 wrote:True that was from the NGE canon but from my booklet from 1.11 it states that 2I happened 15 years before the events in the 1.11, also it states that Shinji is fourteen years old, born 1 year after 2I.


Ahhh thats better :D

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Postby Seph » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:39 am

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:To fit the Ayanami-Makinami trend, or at least that's the obvious answer. The question is why there needed to be a trend in the first place. I've heard a rather nice argument that it's going to end in the revelation that they all share a nature somehow (as in being three of the Adams) but more likely it's just Anno making yet another derpish naval history joke: Shikinami and Ayanami (sister ships, by the way) were both late 20s ships that lasted until WWII and then both bought it (Ayanami at Guadalcanal and Shikinami I don't remember where - by a sub, if I remember the first time I read this over); Makinami was built after the war had already started and got wiped out within a couple years of being launched.

Shikinami actually survived the longest, if memory serves; but I think the point is more that Makinami was a newer model of destroyer - and thus Mari is a new model of Eva girl. I would say it's rather misogynistic but honestly it's so obviously a MONEY MONEY MONEY ploy that I can't even criticize it on any other grounds.

How does naming the girls after warships earn more money?

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Postby The Imperialist » Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:46 am

Military (naval) otakus will immediately respond to a name of a IJN destroyer (or warship in general) ==> they will come to showing ==> Profit for Anno (and anybody else who gets the share)
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Postby qu4d » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:00 am

Just added my thoughts on rebuild. With pictures :P

Even if it´s not really new I guess... opinions? Any reply is welcome :D

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Re: q´s "this is (not) just a summary" thread +reb

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Postby Hawq » Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:56 am

View Original Postqu4d wrote:Fuyutsuki was surprised by his existence on the moon - Kaworu called Gendo father.
It's unclear which of them he's referring to when he says it, if it was Gendo though it could make any scenes with Shinji (if they get him back) even creepier

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Postby Azathoth » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:28 am

View Original PostSeph wrote:How does naming the girls after warships earn more money?


Gotta rotate out the old models and bring in the new ones. Asuka? Rei? Shit, everyone bought all that merchandise ten years ago. Come on, there's dakimakura to be sold, who gives a fuck if her insertion is horribly rushed and nonsensical? Just say that's the point, they'll eat it up.
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:39 am

Surely you mean Arael here?

Should be Armisael if anything 'cause nothing Bardy does resembles Arael and Unit 03 did have growth mutation; do NOT give me the "it eliminates Asuka" trope logic, that is not powers nor physical appearance. Ramiel should also be + Ireul since it adapts and stuff and Sahaquiel should have the + Leliel due to the falso sphere form. So really it should go:


Kushiel: Gaghiel + Sandalphon
Sachiel: Sachiel
Shamshel: Shamshel
Ramiel: Ramiel +
Othniel: Israfel + Matariel
Sahaquiel: Sahauiel + Leliel
Bardiel: Bardiel + Armisael
Zeruel: Zeruel + Black Getter (haha just joking)
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Postby Azathoth » Thu Sep 23, 2010 11:58 am

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:Should be Armisael if anything 'cause nothing Bardy does resembles Arael and Unit 03 did have growth mutation; do NOT give me the "it eliminates Asuka" trope logic, that is not powers nor physical appearance.


What the fuck kind of criterion is that? Bardiel accomplishes Arael's role in the storyline, he's clearly rolling with the Arael ball. Zeruel doesn't look a damn thing like Armisael, either. Why are you judging them based on physical appearance alone? Who gives a damn? If the end Angel of 1.0 was a gigantic bouncing purple otter I would still have called it Ramiel if it fired megaton beams at Unit 01 while Unit 01 was trying to snipe it, requiring Unit 00 to shield it.

Ultimately, the relevance of an Angel is based on what it reveals about the characters: Ramiel's real purpose is to trigger the "you should smile" moment, not to be blue or crystalline or have a drill or laser beams. In the same way, I refer to the 9th Angel as strongly inspired by both Bardiel and Arael - Bardiel in form and mode of attack, but Arael in terms of its relevance to the plot, which is to assault Asuka's mind and reduce her to a temporarily-useless state.
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:30 pm

Bardiel accomplishes Arael's role in the storyline

Role =/= powers, personality, or appearance
Why are you judging them based on physical appearance alone?

I am doing it by powers and how they act as well.
which is to assault Asuka's mind and reduce her to a temporarily-useless state.

Now we don't know what exactly happened to Asuka YET, although we might find out in 3.0.
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Postby Azathoth » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:48 pm

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:Role =/= powers, personality, or appearance


The fuck? Yeah, okay, I noticed. I am not blind. I am aware that Bardiel, being composed of luminous blue cheez wiz, is not visually akin to Arael, giant shiny space wings attached to nothing. I'm saying that he accomplishes Arael's role in the story, by existing to temporarily bump Asuka out of the story by removing her ability to pilot, and thus shifting the focus of the story to Shinji (and thereby opening a path for his subsequent interactions with Rei and Kaworu).

View Original PostTwin Drive Sigma Aquarion wrote:Now we don't know what exactly happened to Asuka YET, although we might find out in 3.0.


...

We already know what happened to Asuka! How it ends, no, we don't know that. But we know that she's currently fucked up enough that she can't pilot - indeed, enough to keep her on the Aztec altar of AT field suppression or whatever those pillar thingies are for. But the appearance of Pirate Shikinami is surely enough to conclude that her uselessness is only temporary, isn't it?

I feel like we're talking about completely different things here somehow.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:59 pm

Physical traits vs Narrative context...


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