Incomplete Eva Series

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Incomplete Eva Series

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Postby kylethestrange » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:33 pm

The eva series was incomplete as we all know. Why could instrumentality happen then? Or is that why Shinji was able to reject instrumentality, which I assume enabled everyone else to reject it as well.
Seele talks about the Dead Sea Scrolls and everything going according to plan. So I take it the Scrolls say something about the evas, angels, instrumentality, and how everything was going down, so why could it be done/was done without the complete series. Does anyone have some light to shed on this?

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Postby Jinroh » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:34 pm

What do you mean by incomplete?

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Postby Allemann » Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:52 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:What do you mean by incomplete?


Twelve MP Evangelions were planned, but nine were produced.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:28 pm

Technically speaking, none of the MP Evas were necessary for Instrumentality to happen. They just made it proportionally easier for SEELE to control it.
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Postby Gamer137 » Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:04 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Technically speaking, none of the MP Evas were necessary for Instrumentality to happen. They just made it proportionally easier for SEELE to control it.


Pretty much this. Gendo's interferences with the original scenario (i.e. stealing Adam, throwing away the Lance, and getting Unit-01 to take in the S2 organ) forces SEELE to speed up the production of the series to use them before Gendo can start Third Impact himself. Although the exact uses for each variable and piece of each scenario is unclear, every aspect of the MP Evas is copied. Units 00, 02, 03, and 04 were from Adam just like the MP series, the Lances are replicas of the original, and the Dummy Plug System is not exclusive to the MP units. They were just substitutes for Gendo's interferences.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:22 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:Technically speaking, none of the MP Evas were necessary for Instrumentality to happen. They just made it proportionally easier for SEELE to control it.
Well, after they couldn't easily use one of the Angels they needed the MPEs. That massive amount of S2 power had to come from somewhere.
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Postby AyrYntake » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:47 pm

The massive amount of S2 power could have been more than provided for by Unit-01 alone, when you think about it.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:03 pm

View Original PostAyrYntake wrote:The massive amount of S2 power could have been more than provided for by Unit-01 alone, when you think about it.
Possibly, but once Lilith was no longer available 01 wasn't an option since they needed her to be Lilith's replacement.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby AyrYntake » Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:06 am

Wait, what? I was always under the impression that the primary trigger for 3I was still the merging of Adam and Lilith, thanks to Rei and her floaty ATF trick. It was GNR that did all the planetary soul-collecting stuff during 3I even before Unit-01 got absorbed, right?
Back on topic after this tangent is resolved...:shrug:
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Postby Allemann » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:27 pm

The MP Evangelions were necessary for conjuring the Sephirot. Without it, any scenario is impossible.

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Postby AyrYntake » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:43 pm

Not true. The Angels never showed any ability to conjure up Sephiroth, and yet they were equally capable of causing 3I.
Besides, going on the assumption that they were just there to conjure Sephiroth, the fact that there are ten Sephiroth would make the series of nine MPEs "complete", which as we know is not the case.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:39 pm

I'm pretty sure the Sephirot itself is just SEELE being silly jews. The real significance was the big ass AT Field it was made out of which called the Lance...somehow. If the Lance was never MOOOOOON'd, then it'd be entirely unnecessary.
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Postby Gamer137 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:54 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:I'm pretty sure the Sephirot itself is just SEELE being silly jews. The real significance was the big ass AT Field it was made out of which called the Lance...somehow. If the Lance was never MOOOOOON'd, then it'd be entirely unnecessary.


Actually, that big bang caused the Geofront to be exposed. The Lance came back before hand, when Eva-01 was going crazy when Shinji saw Unit-02's butchered corpse.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:13 pm

View Original PostAyrYntake wrote:Wait, what? I was always under the impression that the primary trigger for 3I was still the merging of Adam and Lilith...
More accurately, it's the joining of Adam's S2 power, which was needed to conjure a world-wide Anti-AT Field, and Lilith's Chamber of Guf which could gather up all the souls that were freed after the Anti-ATF had been deployed. This could be done in a few ways, such as using The Angels and Lilith, or a substitute for The Angels (like the S2-equipped MPEs) and 01 who was (somehow) kindred with Lilith. GNR actually interrupted the 3I process in progress and took over from there, integrating the power of the MPEs into herself, and allowing Shinji the choice of whether or not to continue or stop.

The Sephiroth was likely a symbolic way of expressing the concept of MOARPOWER, plus the MPEs connecting with 01 and, later, GNR.
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby BeoX2 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:16 pm

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:More accurately, it's the joining of Adam's S2 power, which was needed to conjure a world-wide Anti-AT Field, and Lilith's Chamber of Guf which could gather up all the souls that were freed after the Anti-ATF had been deployed.


In other words, the Fruit of Life and the Fruit of Knowledge, as told by Fyyutski (spelling his name sucks) in EoE. By having both, GNR became a god, and was able to summon the Tree of Life, while the MPE's alone could not.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:11 am

View Original PostBeoX2 wrote:In other words, the Fruit of Life and the Fruit of Knowledge, as told by Fyyutski (spelling his name sucks) in EoE. By having both, GNR became a god, and was able to summon the Tree of Life, while the MPE's alone could not.
Well, it's debatable what the Fruit of Knowledge is, but unless it's consciousness/will/choice it's hard to figure out how it would be necessary for 3I and Instrumentality.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby SpearofLonginus » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:38 am

You guys keep saying the angels could've easily been substituted for the MP Evas... but then why destroy the angels? Gendo's doing I guess?

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Postby Aozora » Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:28 am

View Original PostSpearofLonginus wrote:You guys keep saying the angels could've easily been substituted for the MP Evas... but then why destroy the angels? Gendo's doing I guess?

Surely because they can't be controlled.
I have a theory that Seele would have used Kaworu instead of the MP Evas, because he was under their control, but their plans changed (perhaps without telling Kaworu).

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Postby AyrYntake » Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:19 pm

More importantly, and perhaps ostensibly, Kaworu's plans changed without telling them.
So, am I to take the consensus to be that the MPEs were essential, and that there were enough of them?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:35 pm

Yea, probably, given how everything would've gone as SEELE planned if not for Shinji and Rei changing their minds.
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