Akira vs EoE

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Postby Eva 02 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:01 pm

@ OoOoOoO I was one of those people. The manga has to be the greatest of all time. I saw the Anime first, then would either purchase the giant novels or read them at the local Half-Price Books. I was blown away by the manga! The drawings of the city and landscapes are epic. Also, the movie completely missed Tetsuo's badassery from the manga. He didn't get blonde hair and blue eyes and it never showed him walking down main street with that cape, staving off tanks. The Anime, upon further examination, would get boring because of all the plot summarization and explanations. The manga's definitely better by a long shot, but be that as it may, the Anime has yet to be truly surpassed by any other title.
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Postby oOoOoOo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:10 pm

02-kun, when it comes to the manga and the anime, I look to each work for a different reason. If I want to enjoy the story of Akira, I turn to the manga. If I want to have an eyegasm, I turn to the film. In that sense, neither is really better than the other. It depends on how I compare them.

But you are right about the apocalyptic cityscapes, especially the water coming in and stuff. I thought the anime captured that well, but the manga's imagery is still quite overwhelming. ^_^

I imagine a lot of filmmakers have been influenced by Akira's apocalyptic cityscapes.
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Postby Eva 02 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:22 pm

^^ Yeah, some parts are more permeating in movement, such as when Kaneda's( Canada, Kaneda... I see why you like it so much) bike starts up with the lightning, and various Tetsuo hallucinations. I mean when his guts are falling out and he's trying catch them in his hands... Yeah.
Last edited by Eva 02 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Oz » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:25 pm

As for Akira, I'll just s-TETSUOOOOOO!
KANEDAAAAAAA!
TETSUOOOOOO!
KANEDAAAA!!!
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Postby planet news » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:33 pm

oOoOoOo wrote:I say the weirdest shit.

Don't flatter yourself. I had the same thought sober.

ran1 wrote:At the very least he's the mascot of overanalyzation.

I've found that he becomes extremely obsessed with various subjects kind of like EvaGeeks does. The Book of Job is a good example of this.

Eva 02 wrote:the Anime has yet to be truly surpassed by any other title

Not even... let's see... EoE?
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Postby Eva 02 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:01 pm

Nope. EoE was far too grabasstic and random. Akira told an epic story, and as oOoOoOo said, it was visaually stunning. Don't get me wrong, Eva's my favourite anime but Akira isn't a series. It did far more in its 3 hours than Eva did in EoE, as the end only focused on the last two eps of the series.
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Postby Oz » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:05 pm

End of Evangelion is (in terms of narrative) dense as hell even though it relies on the series. Don't underestimate the symbolical overload next to Akira which has a longer running time.
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"Often I get the feeling that deep down, your little girl is struggling with your embrace of filmfaggotry and your loldeep fixations, and the conflict that arises from such a contradiction is embodied pretty well in Kureha's character. But obviously it's not any sort of internal conflict that makes the analogy work. It's the pigtails." - Merridian
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Postby backseatjesus » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:16 pm

Akira fucking blows when compared to EOE

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Postby Eva 02 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:58 pm

What's that? Akira blows EoE away? See, now this is getting to be an Eva vs. Akira rant. But lets compare the two:

EoE wasn't even supposed to happen. The inability to properly organize a series' production caused EoE

Akira is groundbreaking for its time. Its far more influential on Anime creators as compared to Eva.

People who don't like anime appreciate Akira. People who think anime is for kids - show them Akira and that will stop.

Perhaps the primary reason - if you want to introduce someone to anime, you show them 1 of 2 titles(movies) Akira or GitS. The latter is more boring than Akira, so naturally which one wins. If you show someone EoE as their first anime, then you are daft. Thats selfish, have them watch the series first, they are more likely to be confused and then subsequently bored.

For that reason EoE is subordinate to Akira. Again don't get me wrong, I have as greater appreciation for EoE and its ranked higher on my list than Akira, but that's because I'm going off how influential it is to me. I saw Akira first and the broader impact done because of it ranks it higher, sorry.
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:13 pm

Silly rabbit, accessibility isn't an accurate measure of quality.
"Now, from Nature we obtain abundant information about ourselves, and precious little about others. About the woman you clasp in your arms, can you say with certainty that she does not feign pleasure? About the woman you mistreat, are you quite sure that from abuse she does not derive some obscure and lascivious satisfaction? Let us confine ourselves to simple evidence: through thoughtfulness, gentleness, concern for the feelings of others we saddle our own pleasure with restrictions, and make this sacrifice to obtain a doubtful result." -The Divine Marquis

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Postby oOoOoOo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:31 pm

Concerning Akira vs. EoE, I'd say Akira is more consistently visually fantastic but EoE packs more of a punch by virtue of being the climax of a long narrative. I watch both annually (and when I watch EoE it is always after the series).

View Original Postplanet news wrote:Don't flatter yourself. I had the same thought sober.

About whether or not you need to see the juice when you're painting a tipping bowl of fruit? Cool. And thinking about juice like that, well, it's a bit vulgar. Tsk, tsk.
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Postby Eva 02 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 7:55 pm

View Original PostMugwumpHasNoLiver wrote:Silly rabbit, accessibility isn't an accurate measure of quality.


Sillier rabbit, no one even mentioned accessibility. There are plenty of prints of both copies, and despite a store likely to carry Akira over aything Eva, the Akira mangas are out of print.

If you meant to say approachable it is indeed a measure of quality. It would be the most important, in fact. EoE does't accomplish that much, its the ending to a genrally disorganized and grabbastic anime series. The show should have included EoE. Akira is a summarization of a looooong manga series, and in all aspects more respected than Eva. Its a classic, its like saying Apocalypse Now is better than Platoon. Both are outstanding movies, but one is accurate. Apocalypse is based on the novel Heart Of Darkenss and there's not even a river that runs all through Vietnam. Platoon was written on real expiriences with a different and great director. Apocalypse Now director is upheld as one of the all-time best.

Like I said, I like Eva wayyy better but Akira is the superior creation for a plurethra of reasons. Funny how I went from critical of Akira to defending its classic-ness.
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:24 pm

Yes, that is funny. It's fun to prod. Now, I've never seen either Akira or Platoon, so I will not comment any further.
"Now, from Nature we obtain abundant information about ourselves, and precious little about others. About the woman you clasp in your arms, can you say with certainty that she does not feign pleasure? About the woman you mistreat, are you quite sure that from abuse she does not derive some obscure and lascivious satisfaction? Let us confine ourselves to simple evidence: through thoughtfulness, gentleness, concern for the feelings of others we saddle our own pleasure with restrictions, and make this sacrifice to obtain a doubtful result." -The Divine Marquis

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Postby Eva 02 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:46 pm

Whaaaaaaaaaat?! Fuck Akira, go out and rent Platoon!!! Oliver Stone's finest hour, and the only Charlie Sheen movie worth watching. Also Johnny Depp's first big movie role. Tom Berenger reserved his place in my heart as the best badass of any movie because of this. John C. McGuinley(the sarcastic Doc from Scrubs) is insanely good. You'll cry during the villiage scene. Go see it go see it go go go go go!!! I give it a 10. Although it can be poor quality during some parts due to filming in a real jungle, the genuinity is palpable.

The actors actually had real boot camp preparing for this role. They were not allowed to go back to Hollywood between scenes, they were flown into the jungle a month before shooting for training where they were their character, then only could leave once shooting was completed. Some of them had real breakdowns during certain scenes to create the most genuine war drama OF ALL TIME, HANDS DOWN. GOGOGO GET IT!!!
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Postby Merridian » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:26 pm

As a film, EoE really does blow Akira away—but it’s rather silly to compare the two. Apart from “both are animated films” and “both are from Japan”, they don't have a whole lot in common. So going by form alone, Anno’s directing ability far outpaces nearly anyone working in the industry.

Eva 02 wrote: Akira is groundbreaking for its time. Its far more influential on Anime creators as compared to Eva.
that’s not quite true. The manga was more influential than the film was, and though both were stellar, I think you’ll find that Evangelion has had a larger impact on the industry in terms of basically presenting the next generation of mecha anime, particularly in the type of characters that are typically written for the shows and how these characters are manipulated into presenting certain themes. Plus there's Anno’s own directorial touch which, though not limited to Evangelion, is most certainly present in its fullest and most unrestrained capacity in EoE. His method of presentation alone has been far more influential than anything Akira has resulted in.

By comparison, the Akira manga was more or less directly responsible for the cyberpunk attached to the OVA boom, which was somewhat short lived and was effectively closed by the time Oshii adapted Ghost in the Shell. Cyberpunk in more recent animu (what little there is) is more restrained and far less gritty than the apocalyptic despair present in Akira.

Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love Akira (film AND comic), but to compare the two is apples and oranges.

As a side note, you mention that the show should have included EoE, which I can agree with on some level. But it would have been a nightmare attempting to get EoE past the Japanese TV censorship folks, and the “episodes” of EoE are longer than the 23-some minute ep length of the rest of the show. I'd say it definitely benefited from being a film.
Eva 02 wrote: Akira mangas are out of print.
Were out of print. Kodansha Comics has branched over into the Western market and is in the process of reprinting them for us. Vols 1-3 are currently out.

Yeah, Dark Horse really dropped the ball when they let them go OOP, but DH has a problem with that type of stuff anyway.

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Postby Eva 02 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:06 pm

The absolute only thing that lower's Akira's 10/10 score and label as the most effective Anime of all time is that it tried to condense six volumes of manga into one two-hour film.

"AKIRA is rich with ideas, but lacking in expression. It’s just not possible to cram in so many thematic elements, and then dilute them to fit a moviegoing audience and still make everything work" - Makigumo


Wiki wrote:AKIRA is regarded by many critics as a landmark anime film, one that influenced much of the art in the anime world that followed its release with many illustrators in the manga industry citing the film as an important influence. The film led the way for the growth of popularity of anime outside of Japan. AKIRA is considered a forerunner of the second wave of anime fandom that began in the early 1990s and has gained a massive cult following since then.


Akira broke out of the anime norms of its time. If it weren't for Akira, NGE might not even exist. It set new standards for anime produced after 1988 and anime wouldn't be as popular in US if it weren't for Akira.

It is because of this that Akira>EoE, not idiosyncratic entertainment-wise, but because of the impact it had. EoE was a work of art, as where Akira is a classic that lay the foundation for modern anime including NGE. Call me old fashioned, but some classics can never be outdone.
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Postby Oz » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:09 pm

You're still dodging the major point about the influence: Evangelion is extremely influential on its own as well. Sure, Akira certainly did influence NGE and EoE. But so did dozens of other films and series. The point is that Evangelion is as important/influential as Akira even though it was made years later. Your argument that relies on influence is rather shaky because of that.

By the way, quoting Wikipedia is not the best idea when you try to support your own opinion.
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Postby Eva 02 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:34 pm

No sir, Akira would far far far exceed EoE influence. Sure it has huge influence on our lives but come on. Anno didn't even want to make EoE! And how the hell can you say EoE is a stronger influence even though its influenced by Akira? You aren't American, so you didn't experience it from an American standpoint. There's so much fucking ethnocentrism and misconceptions about anime in general in America, but Akira eased this. Hell, some don't even know that its from Japan! South Park has even done a parody of this, as have Venture Bros and plenty of other ones, yet I only see Eva parodies in other anime!

Akira is much more audience friendly than EoE. The fist half is fucking intense, but the Instrumentality second-half kills it. Even I get bored and fast forward through parts of just dialog. Akira is pretty consistent aside from a few plot-unload points.

Akira is Standalone. If you haven't watched the NGE series, you're shit out of luck.

Akira has much more awards, commemerations... Hell they air it on American TV stations.

Akira is the first anime for a lot of anime fans, and is the reason for liking anime for some.

http://bestuff.com/stuff/akira < Akira=best anime on bestuff.com?!?!?!

Do a simple google search of best anime's of all time. Akira will always be #1, with Spirited Away and Princess Monoke either behind or in mixed order. Evangelion is usually on the list, but more towards 7-10-20 etc...

And btw, I used Wiki as a source because it is more reputable than the other results I found for "Akira greatest" and the like, i.e. blogs, message boards, inexperienced critics etc... I picked the most academic sources but if you want me to get down on an EBSCO source to prove my point, I'll do it bro. Akira did more for anime than NGE will ever do, that is an industry fact. Evangelion is #1 on my list and EoE is what I would call the best visual entertainment ever produced, but if you want to compare the two, Akira wins every time because of the tremendous impact it had on the market, in all aspects!!!!
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Postby Oz » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:54 pm

Dude, chill the fuck down.

It seems you are limiting (as an American) yourself to an American point of view. Naturally Akira opened the west (and USA in particular) for anime, but that's a really narrow point of view. Evangelion had a huge impact on Japan most of all. You don't see many other shows inspiring genuine intellectual debates and a huge number of published analyses. You are confusing "influence on industry" with the reaction it had in the west.

Besides, "audience friendliness", the number of awards, being standalone and being on the top of favorite anime lists hardly speak for its influence. Those things have more to do with the appreciation of the film itself.

Also, when you read something from Wikipedia, check the source it is based on and quote that if you still feel the need to actually refer to your source.

And I don't really get it what you mean that even though you prefer EoE you say that in comparison Akira beats in every aspect. It doesn't make much sense to me.
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Postby Defectron » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:26 pm

Well as a standalone movie I would say Akira is better, but as someone who watched the eva series before eoe, I gotta say I enjoyed eoe more.

No sir, Akira would far far far exceed EoE influence


I dont like to judge stuff based on influence, as not all influential things are good imo.

Other anime movies I liked more are spirited away, Millenium actress and utena the movie. I don't really think any of those were that influential though so you get my point.
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