Evangelions psychology or philosophy

[BeoX2]

We all know that Eva has some of the best of both these things, but which do you like better? The best way I've seen the two described is that Psychology is the hole that you fall into, and Philosophy is the ladder back out of the pit.

Personally, I like the Psychological aspect a little better. Postmodern Existentialism (the philosophy that NGE seems to follow) has always seemed sort of selfish to me, and although I'm probably classified as an existentialist, I certainly don't agree with all the aspects of Eva's "lectures," especially during the EoTV.

The psychology in Eva is what has really interested me in the entire study of psychology, and it's all so raw and genuine that I can't help but love it.

But what about you?

[Maka]

As for psychology, seeing representations of emotional crisis...gave me a feeling of vindication. You don't see such a high degree of accuracy in such things as mental stress, anguish, and emotional crisis. "I'm not alone" comes to mind as the reaction I gave.

Although, I think the philosophy had a longer lasting effect. Dialogue from Episode 26 actually changed my life. Which sounds really corny. But the psychology was like this journey through a..more experienced suffering. And at the end is the wisdom gained, the philosophy. It was like someone was guiding me through it before I became like the characters; destroyed, suicidal, destructive. So, as you say, it was a ladder out, one which I actually used.

[Eva Yojimbo]

I don't think that there's much of a difference. Philosophy and psychology are as integrally linked as subjectivity and objectivity; between the external world and how we experience that world. One can't completely eliminate either from the equation.

[BeoX2]

I don't think that there's much of a difference. Philosophy and psychology are as integrally linked as subjectivity and objectivity; between the external world and how we experience that world. One can't completely eliminate either from the equation.

I disagree. There is a huge difference between psych and philo. Philosophy is very varied and differs greatly from person to person. One philosopher could not necessarily apply their philosophy to another person or thing. However, psychology, being technically a science, can be applied to multiple people and things, without having to drastically change the "laws" that govern it. As stated before, psychology is the hole, philosophy is the ladder.

In Eva they mix very well (although the full extents of the philosophy are really only brought out in the EoTV, while the psych is gradually built up), but are still very separate. Such as one reviewer of Evangelion, internet named "JesuOtaku" who very much liked the psychology aspect of the series, but found the philosophy to be just plain wrong. Philosophy is objective, and differs from person to person, but most psychology is a constant.

[Eva Yojimbo]

However, psychology, being technically a science, can be applied to multiple people and things,

Depends on what subsection of psychology we're talking about, and NGE mostly draws from Freud and Jung who are most definitely closer to the philosophical side of the equation than the science of, say, evolutionary or cognitive psychology.

[BeoX2]

Depends on what subsection of psychology we're talking about, and NGE mostly draws from Freud and Jung who are most definitely closer to the philosophical side of the equation than the science of, say, evolutionary or cognitive psychology.

Yes it does, but it is still not entirely the same, or really the same at all. Philosophers are very open minded and inspecific, while psychology tends to like to have answers for everything, and likes to be able to classify, categorize, and explain down to the lowest level.

[Eva Yojimbo]

psychology tends to like to have answers for everything, and likes to be able to classify, categorize, and explain down to the lowest level.

Errr, so does philosophy, really. I think you're mistaking philosophy's failure to do so (though I think psychology fails to comprehensively do so just as well) with their not attempting to do so.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

I'm not really big on Jung and Freud, but I do appreciate the sequences where the characters are trapped inside their heads, which I guess would be "psychological" in itself. The psychology of the characters is generally little more than "pop psychology," but it works very well and creates some very interesting characters.

I also like the existential feeling of much of the show. Shinji's "existential awakening," so to speak, is a large part of what makes the melancholy atmosphere of the show appealing.

[BeoX2]

I'm not really big on Jung and Freud, but I do appreciate the sequences where the characters are trapped inside their heads, which I guess would be "psychological" in itself. The psychology of the characters is generally little more than "pop psychology," but it works very well and creates some very interesting characters.

I also like the existential feeling of much of the show. Shinji's "existential awakening," so to speak, is a large part of what makes the melancholy atmosphere of the show appealing.

I'm not quite sure that the philosophy here is just plain existentialism. It's really "postmodern existentialism," which although similar, is not the same at all. Its beliefs on objective reality are very selfish by saying that "your own reality is the only one that matters." However, it seems to contradict itself by saying that people's perception of you is what really makes you, you. If that were the case, which I personally believe it to be, then other peoples' reality would matter even more than your own. It's a very strange, convoluted form of philosophy, and although very interesting and intelligent, it's not really my cup of tea, so to speak.

I find the psychology to be much more robust and real, and this would really apply to any series. Psychology can only be benefited by bias, such as Anno's history with depression, or even my own battles with mental illness. It's gives a deeper understanding, and, as a byproduct, a better show of it as well. Philosophy is only weakened by bias, as it makes it more and more difficult to think about it differently. Its bias makes it too stubborn, too unwilling to change, to be really thought about and enjoyed as much as the other aspects.

[Bomby von Bombsville]

I feel like Shinji's constant questioning about what the whole business about these "Angels" and this "Evangelion" and what it all means is very much old-school Existentialism. It's fits the very definition of "existential despair" to a tee.

[berto]

Oh, dear, so soon and already arguing the nature of each.

Philosophy, the study of truth, from the greek word philosophia, meaning love of wisdom.

Phychology, the study of the psyche, from the latin word psycologia, from the words phyche, meaning soul or breath, and -logia meaning study of.

Now, don't be too impressed on the greek and latin origins, they're only memoreble because they're so similar to the spanish versions of each word.

Anyway. Evangelion's phychology works by asigning one or more major mental illness to each character. Shinji for example suffers from alianation at the beggening, depression and shyness trough most of the show.

Alianation is often accompanied by a sence of emotional numbness, loss of humor, social introvertion, a need to run away from home or ones family, a feeling of no meaning to life, and it can be caused by childhood experiences with cold and distant parents or over bearing ones. Depression has similar symptoms but add some thought of suiside.

Shyness is pretty self explenatory, it comes with avoidence to be the center of attention or center stage, a small circle of friends, introverted hobbies and interests.

With shyness for characters like Shinji, and even Asuka and Rei to a small extent, can be caused by ether strict and overbearing parents that give no reason or parents that give love and approval only when earned. This is called conditional love. I personally think that shynes is the defining illness/characteresitc for Shinji.

I gatta think about the phylosophical aspects of the moment, I gatta think about it a little bit and some more about the other characters phycological aspects.

[Allemann]

Postmodern Existentialism (the philosophy that NGE seems to follow)

One of my majors is philosophy, and I never heard of postmodern existentialism.

The psychology in Eva is what has really interested me in the entire study of psychology, and it's all so raw and genuine that I can't help but love it.

Eva has psychologically complex characters, but not much psychology as science.

[BeoX2]

One of my majors is philosophy, and I never heard of postmodern existentialism.



Eva has psychologically complex characters, but not much psychology as science.

It definitely exists. Most people I know, and both my parents, know about it. Ask your professor.

[Allemann]

It definitely exists. Most people I know, and both my parents, know about it.

Are these people, including you parents, professional philosophers?

Ask your professor.

Which one? I have many of them.

[BeoX2]

Are these people, including you parents, professional philosophers?



Which one? I have many of them.

Really no need to sound all snooty. Postmodern existentialism is the postmodern version of regular existentialism. It's classified under postmodernism. It's real, I'm not like bullshitting you here or anything. And no, my parents and friends are not professional, but then again, neither are you. I think that in their 52 years of life they've learned a little bit more than you have in 4 years of college.

Ask whatever professor knows the subject best.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Psychology can only be benefited by bias... Philosophy is only weakened by bias...

Neither really exist without bias. We have to interpret the world via our own cognitive processes. psychology will come from one observing, thinking, and interpreting how individuals or a collection of individuals act and interact and how one thinks as much as philosophy will come from one observing, thinking, and interpreting the various ways in which the world and life works, in general. There's really no difference in the world of NGE. The scientific aspects of psychology really aren't anywhere to be found in the series, it all resides on the philosophical side of psychology.

[Allemann]

Postmodern existentialism is the postmodern version of regular existentialism. It's classified under postmodernism.

A philosophically minded individual should know how to recognize a tautology.

And no, my parents and friends are not professional, but then again, neither are you.

I have a degree. I can't be more professional than I am.

I think that in their 52 years of life they've learned a little bit more than you have in 4 years of college.

If that "little bit more" isn't academic philosophy, I couldn't care less.

Ask whatever professor knows the subject best.

What a dumb evasion!

[BeoX2]

A little upset that you didn't know about it? Really, if you were so "professional" you wouldn't be acting so arrogant.

Anyway back on topic.

[Merridian]

So then... what exactly is postmodern existentialism? I know existentialism, and I know postmodernism well enough, but I, like Allemann, have yet to encounter any sort of unified "postmodern existentialism" title before. NGE falls into plain old existentialism well enough, barring some terminology issues.

However, it seems to contradict itself by saying that people's perception of you is what really makes you, you.

NGE says that both your own perception of yourself as well as others' perceptions of you is what comprises your self. It places more priority over the individual's self-perception, actually, with the whole "imagine yourself within your heart" bit explicitly present in EoE.

I don't see anything specifically postmodern about that, really. But I'm open to persuasion.

[Allemann]

NGE falls into plain old existentialism well enough

I'm skeptical of this proposition.