Shin(ji)ko - WHY?

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Shin(ji)ko - WHY?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:56 pm

After seeing the latest breakout of Shinji genben content in the avatar thread*, and being bombarded by that accursed 4chan Eva genben post for the 9001th time, I felt a peculiar rage stir within me. Namely -- why, in the name of the Great Yui-sama (or whomever), why???

I'm sure this will sound a little weird coming from the source of fem-Kaworu, but hear me out -- this is a little different.

I really, really despise the very concept of Shin(ji)ko. I'm not sure exactly what the deal with her popularity is, but I figure it largely has something to do with an inability to accept a male character with so many "feminine" traits. It's the fans' way of "fixing" (as in correcting) Shinji. This is quite peculiar, since Shinji never demonstrates any particular discomfort with his maleness per se. Do people find something intrinsically threatening about such an "emasculated" and "effeminate" male, to the point that they become at times rabid enthusiasts for his conversion to a female shell? (Probably not hard to figure out one of the people I'm referring to. ;p )

Whatever the exact reason for the Shinko obsession... One of its really loathable aspects is how it destroys some of the most remarkable aspects of the character, and often quite intentionally. (Lots of comments to the effect of how well-suited Shinji is to the female sex...) The fact that Shinji makes such a "poor man" -- "You're a boy, aren't you?!", "Nothing's more useless than a housebroken male", etc. -- is arguably very much part of the point, albeit one of the subtler ones, such that we aren't thumped over the head with it repeatedly like some of the other themes.

What I get from Shinji, anyway, is a comfort with being the way he is (i.e., effeminate and the like) despite not fitting into his gender role. His reaction to Kaji's Mars & Venus approach to the sexes -- "I don't understand adults" -- also implies that he rejects the philosophical position. Perhaps I am just projecting my own ideologies onto things, though...

In any event, yes... Shinko enthusiasm feels practically the same to me as taking a dump on one of Shinji's mightiest attributes and the holy mission of the erosion of outdated gender roles. ITT, chime in with your own thoughts.

(NOTE: Many similar things could be said for genben enthusiasm in general, but Shinko fandom is most prominent, and Shinji such a controversial character, that I decided to focus my rant on that.)


* This is more or less guaranteed to occur on a regular basis due to Synapsid, but Mr. Tines was actually responsible this time. But then Synapsid posted another picture.
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Shin(ji)ko - WHY? (Discussion Only!!)

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Postby BrikHaus » Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:58 pm

Split of actual discussion content from this original thread, which later became a place to post pictures of Shinji wearing a dress. First post by Reichu follows - OMF/SSD
View Original PostReichu wrote:After seeing the latest breakout of Shinji genben content in the avatar thread*, and being bombarded by that accursed 4chan Eva genben post for the 9001th time, I felt a peculiar rage stir within me. Namely -- why, in the name of the Great Yui-sama (or whomever), why???

I'm sure this will sound a little weird coming from the source of fem-Kaworu, but hear me out -- this is a little different.

I really, really despise the very concept of Shin(ji)ko. I'm not sure exactly what the deal with her popularity is, but I figure it largely has something to do with an inability to accept a male character with so many "feminine" traits. It's the fans' way of "fixing" (as in correcting) Shinji. This is quite peculiar, since Shinji never demonstrates any particular discomfort with his maleness per se. Do people find something intrinsically threatening about such an "emasculated" and "effeminate" male, to the point that they become at times rabid enthusiasts for his conversion to a female shell? (Probably not hard to figure out one of the people I'm referring to. ;p )

Whatever the exact reason for the Shinko obsession... One of its really loathable aspects is how it destroys some of the most remarkable aspects of the character, and often quite intentionally. (Lots of comments to the effect of how well-suited Shinji is to the female sex...) The fact that Shinji makes such a "poor man" -- "You're a boy, aren't you?!", "Nothing's more useless than a housebroken male", etc. -- is arguably very much part of the point, albeit one of the subtler ones, such that we aren't thumped over the head with it repeatedly like some of the other themes.

What I get from Shinji, anyway, is a comfort with being the way he is (i.e., effeminate and the like) despite not fitting into his gender role. His reaction to Kaji's Mars & Venus approach to the sexes -- "I don't understand adults" -- also implies that he rejects the philosophical position. Perhaps I am just projecting my own ideologies onto things, though...

In any event, yes... Shinko enthusiasm feels practically the same to me as taking a dump on one of Shinji's mightiest attributes and the holy mission of the erosion of outdated gender roles. ITT, chime in with your own thoughts.

(NOTE: Many similar things could be said for genben enthusiasm in general, but Shinko fandom is most prominent, and Shinji such a controversial character, that I decided to focus my rant on that.)


* This is more or less guaranteed to occur on a regular basis due to Synapsid, but Mr. Tines was actually responsible this time. But then Synapsid posted another picture.

End First Post - OMF SSD
Reichu wrote:9001st

fixed.

Oh and do you have a tl;dr version?
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Re: Shin(ji)ko - WHY?

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Postby Sachi » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:09 pm

BrikHaus wrote:Oh and do you have a tl;dr version?

Shinjiko sucks and destroys anything unique about Shinji's effeminate character and its resistance to Gender Roles.
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Postby ZapX » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:18 pm

No way I'm reading that wall of text but I don't really get the gender bending shit either. I mean sure, Kyonko is hot and all but it's not my thing. I usually just dismiss it along with all the futa/guro/whatever other anime fanart. You just get kind of a thick skin and it doesn't faze you as much. With 90% of anime fandom I just kinda shake my head and wonder "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" and try not to let it bother me, though some things like role-playing still get on my nerves.
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Postby Oedipusfoot » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:20 pm

Come on, you guys can't have a little fun once in a while? What, do you ask, is the attraction of fem Shin-chan? He's a cute, vulnerable [----]

Okay, I'm done. I don't see the problem here, because a certain someone's gender/intentions/character is always skewed by someone, somewhere, for fun or sexual excitement.

So...who cares?

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Postby Reichu » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:21 pm

Should I relocate this to Discussion or something (to decrease the occurrences of this "seven paragraphs varying from short to mid-length is too much for my ADD" stuff)?

Oedipusfoot wrote:So...who cares?

Obviously, I do, for the reasons stated.
Last edited by Reichu on Sun Apr 05, 2009 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Oedipusfoot » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:29 pm

ZapalacX wrote: You just get kind of a thick skin and it doesn't faze you as much. With 90% of anime fandom I just kinda shake my head and wonder "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" and try not to let it bother me, though some things like role-playing still get on my nerves.


More like you shouldn't care. All fun and games. Your trying to intellectualize it. It's an interesting phenomenon (gender-bender) but it depends on the artist, art and target the reason for the why. It can't be generalized unless it's personal. In that case you'd know about it in a way an outsider couldn't.
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Postby ZapX » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:35 pm

I thought I made it clear that I really don't care for the most part. And don't smart off to me kid, this is your last warning before I ban you.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:35 pm

You seem to be assuming that people's motivations for digging the whole Shinji genben thing boil down to nothing but "fun and games", which really explains nothing. People's weird little fascinations tend to have actual motivations, whether they know it or not. If you think my inquiry into the "why" is invalid -- well, doesn't help me out too much, but think what you want.
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Re: Shin(ji)ko - WHY?

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Postby Dr. Nick » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:40 pm

Reichu, my dear, this is simply justice being served.

But seriously, while this might at first make quite a bit of sense

Reichu wrote:but I figure it largely has something to do with an inability to accept a male character with so many "feminine" traits.


it doesn't really explain other popular gender-swapped creatures like Kyonko. As far as I know, Kyon is not universally considered to be a whiny bastard. (Or is the underlying idea supposed to be that Haruhi works better as a male? Dunno.)

Like ZapX said, it's just another weird fan-thing. Eva and Haruhi are both popular shows, so they also get lots of fan-art. Beyond that, it's what-makes-memes-memes mystery territory.

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Postby Dartz » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:03 pm

Because Tines' new Avatar looks awesome... that's why.
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Postby NemZ » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:04 pm

The best explanation for Shinjiko proponents I can offer is that such folks are:

1) Unmitigated perverts
2) Uncomfortable with their attractions
3) Trolling for lulz
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Postby GVman » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:26 pm

I like the Shinko thing because it is different than what I'm used to.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:28 pm

Reichu wrote:What I get from Shinji, anyway, is a comfort with being the way he is (i.e., effeminate and the like) despite not fitting into his gender role.

.... And now I would like to thank Reichu, who inadvertently by putting down the character I feel, like Mr. Anno himself, to be a metaphor of my own persona, has effectively taken away my manhood, in a rather intangible, but still yet meaningful and symbolic way.

Well Reichu, I suppose I have another name for you now, which starts with an "m" and ends with "ter"... although this has the air of déjà vu around it....

NemZ wrote:The best explanation for Shinjiko proponents I can offer is that such folks are:
1) Unmitigated perverts


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Postby BobBQ » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:39 pm

You're posting like V. Stop it.

@topic: it's harmless and silly - certainly no more a danger to the integrity of canon than some of the things I've seen in 'chu's own avatar slot.

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Postby Ironfoot » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:44 pm

Here's my opinion. Several possibilities:

1) Created by sexually insecure males to help their desire by screwing little boys,

2) Created by sexually insecure females to dress males up in women's clothing (due to a bad male figure in their life) and dominate them sexually as a result,

3) Created by Gay males to have a nice pretty thing to screw.

The creation of Shinjiko reeks of its master's foul scent, that of major sexual insecurity. Entirely submissive, "it" is a point blank target of sexual domination by geeks and weeaboo's who feel the need to invest their absolute intellectual authority on a seemingly helpless character.

I really hate Shinjiko, but I'm glad this thread was made because it serves as a warning beacon to those who do not yet know of this monster's existence. It serves to primarily satisfy the insecure sexual fantasies of the geeks of the internet, and perhaps for gays. Reminds me of Bridget, though it shouldn't really.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:51 pm

Since Shinji is a Rule 63'd Nadia to start with, in appearance, it shouldn't be a surprise to see that he is frequently Rule 63'd once again. Plus Rule 63, in and of itself.

NemZ wrote:3) Trolling for lulz
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That, too.

The Asuka recolouring makes a more hot-blooded/manly-bad-ass Shinko than any of the usual run of Shinji-in-a-school-dress or that series with a plugsuited moe-blob Shinko.
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Postby Baz » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:25 pm

I've never thought of Shinji as being effeminate. Weak, yes, but his profound lack of empathy is a signature male trait. He inherited that from Gendo, of course. But on to the topic: it's so common for boys to be teased about "not being boys" that I don't believe that Anno was trying to make a point of it.

About the "Mars & Venus" thing in general, I have a crazy theory that we are breeding ourselves towards domesticity and that secondary sexual characteristics, both mental and physical, will gradually become less pronounced as the generations go by.

As a final note, The Women Men Don't See is a short story by James Tiptree Jr. that does a very good job of bashing men over the head with the whole perceived male/female dichotomy thing. It freaked me out when I read it, I highly recommend it.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Apr 05, 2009 6:44 pm

I just tend to ignore the Shinko stuff when I see or comment if I think the picture's cute. However, it has rubbed me the wrong way due to the (not naming names, you know who you are) stupid trolling on THAT BOARD. -_-; (At least Janitor and Ornette help take care of that stuff.)

Shinko herself.... I guess she appeals to people because Shinji is somewhat effeminate that maybe fans think it "makes sense" he'd be a girl (also, the fact Sadamoto recommended to Anno that Eva's lead be male not female), but I like Shinji the way he is*. His personality and physical appearance overall makes him appealing to me, so I feel it's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

To be honest, I never really saw what was so great about gender-bendering over all, it seems kinda silly IMO.

*Though I'm not one to turn down some good ol'-fashioned Shinko/Asuka yuri, however rare it may be. :sweatdrop:

Reichu wrote:What I get from Shinji, anyway, is a comfort with being the way he is (i.e., effeminate and the like) despite not fitting into his gender role.


I got that sense from the series, too. Yet another reason I don't understand why people like Shinko OR gender-bending.

Zap wrote:I just kinda shake my head and wonder "what the fuck is wrong with you people?" and try not to let it bother me, though some things like role-playing still get on my nerves.


fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff. ;)
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Postby Defectron » Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:13 pm

I dont care so much about the meme as I do about the memes name. Shinjiko is not a real name! What kind of retarded made up name is Shinjiko? That translates to child of Shinji or child Shinji, so either Shinji fathered(mothered?) a female version of himself, or he used to be a girl at a younger age, at least thats what the name would imply.

Name her Shinko or something else that is actually a real name!

But this isn't nearly as bad as Luluko, the female version of Lelouch from code geass. Not only is Luluko not a real name, but Lelouch isn't Japanese, neither is his female counterpart, so why should she have a japanese-ish sounding name? Since she's Brittanian her name should be lucy or something like that. I wish people who made memes put a little more thought into naming conventions.
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