Was Keel's body regrown like an Eva's?
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Was Keel's body regrown like an Eva's?
There was previously a thread about why Keel is a cyborg in the Chit-chat section, but I think what I have to say is Discussion-worthy. Merge it if it suits your fancy.
In Neon Genesis Evangelion, Keel Lorenz is always seen "seated", and we never see any part of him below the torso.
http://projectenthalpy.com/lorenz.jpg
Looking more closely at Keel's remains after he liquifies, it's clear that, by 2015, he did not look human below the waist.
Whatever the reason for his cyborgization, it was so extensive that it appears he was immobile. No legs are visible, and his spinal cord keeps going long past the point at which a human spine should end. For all we know, his spine and the other tubes keep going for yards past the edge of the screen.
All of those countless gray and blue tubes must be plugged into something, meaning he is connected to another machine of some sort.
A machine which may or may not have looked something like this.
This sort of surgery seems insanely complex even for the Eva universe. It would involve removing all of his body below the torso, all of his internal organs below the head, including his lungs and his heart, and all of his bones except those in his head and arms.
Keel's skin was still organic, but absolutely everything in his torso below the skin and maybe some muscle was scooped out. What an insane procedure that would be, scooping out all the bones and organs from inside the torso. So insane, in fact, that I don't believe it ever happened.
Removing the heart and lungs would result in a quick death. Keel would be dead by the time they got all his insides out of his torso just to make room for the mechanical parts. Remember, this wouldn't be a simple orthotopic procedure: everything from his ribcage on in would be removed. Surviving that would be impossible.
I don't think an operation of that sort ever happened. An entirely different procedure occurred.
Not quite like this one, but closer to this than to traditional surgery.
Here's what probably happened: Sometime after Second Impact, Keel Lorenz was either dying or he actually died. Whatever caused this, most of his body was destroyed. He was too important to Seele to lose, however, so his body was "regrown". His head may have been his original head, and his arms may be his original arms as well, but the rest of him was regenerated around his mechanical parts. Or maybe what we see of him was entirely regenerated and his soul was harvested from his old body, which is now rotting somewhere.
Regardless of which way it happened, Keel spent some time dead. Even if the preposterous scooping-out-the-insides-and-hooking-the-mechanical-parts-up-piece-by-piece process did occur, Keel must have been dead at some point during the operation as he would have lacked a heart and lungs for a good length of time before his new mechanical insides were attached in a manner that could sustain him.
In case anyone cares or it becomes relevant, Grigorievich Rodonaia apparently holds the record for being dead the longest time before returning to life. He was dead for three days. I can't find any source on this information or proof that whoever declared him dead was just incompetent, however, so I'm going to assume he was never quite dead.
In Neon Genesis Evangelion, Keel Lorenz is always seen "seated", and we never see any part of him below the torso.
http://projectenthalpy.com/lorenz.jpg
Looking more closely at Keel's remains after he liquifies, it's clear that, by 2015, he did not look human below the waist.
Whatever the reason for his cyborgization, it was so extensive that it appears he was immobile. No legs are visible, and his spinal cord keeps going long past the point at which a human spine should end. For all we know, his spine and the other tubes keep going for yards past the edge of the screen.
All of those countless gray and blue tubes must be plugged into something, meaning he is connected to another machine of some sort.
A machine which may or may not have looked something like this.
This sort of surgery seems insanely complex even for the Eva universe. It would involve removing all of his body below the torso, all of his internal organs below the head, including his lungs and his heart, and all of his bones except those in his head and arms.
Keel's skin was still organic, but absolutely everything in his torso below the skin and maybe some muscle was scooped out. What an insane procedure that would be, scooping out all the bones and organs from inside the torso. So insane, in fact, that I don't believe it ever happened.
Removing the heart and lungs would result in a quick death. Keel would be dead by the time they got all his insides out of his torso just to make room for the mechanical parts. Remember, this wouldn't be a simple orthotopic procedure: everything from his ribcage on in would be removed. Surviving that would be impossible.
I don't think an operation of that sort ever happened. An entirely different procedure occurred.
Not quite like this one, but closer to this than to traditional surgery.
Here's what probably happened: Sometime after Second Impact, Keel Lorenz was either dying or he actually died. Whatever caused this, most of his body was destroyed. He was too important to Seele to lose, however, so his body was "regrown". His head may have been his original head, and his arms may be his original arms as well, but the rest of him was regenerated around his mechanical parts. Or maybe what we see of him was entirely regenerated and his soul was harvested from his old body, which is now rotting somewhere.
Regardless of which way it happened, Keel spent some time dead. Even if the preposterous scooping-out-the-insides-and-hooking-the-mechanical-parts-up-piece-by-piece process did occur, Keel must have been dead at some point during the operation as he would have lacked a heart and lungs for a good length of time before his new mechanical insides were attached in a manner that could sustain him.
In case anyone cares or it becomes relevant, Grigorievich Rodonaia apparently holds the record for being dead the longest time before returning to life. He was dead for three days. I can't find any source on this information or proof that whoever declared him dead was just incompetent, however, so I'm going to assume he was never quite dead.
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Hooking up all the necessary machinery in a manner that would allow him to survive, especially given that this sort of procedure was almost certainly never performed on another human and must be given margin for error, would take way longer than-
YEAH WELL JUST FOR THAT YOU DON'T GET TO READ THE REST OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY. Just remember that it wasn't just his heart and lungs that would be removed under this scenario, but everything beneath his skin and maybe some muscle. A few moments? A few hours at least. Probably days.
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I actually like the big dinosaur picture. I thought it was both comical and insightful. [/suck up to read rest of statement]
@TOPIC, I really never gave much thought as to why Keel had the visor or why he was cybernetic. He just was. possibly it was an accident that took place during Second Impact. Misato's dad just wasn't as important to save as this guy, I guess.
Yeah, you're right. But just take a look at THIS! It's Keel. HO MY COD!
I'm going to find out what caused Keel's death. It looks like he was killed by a CROW or something.
Perhaps THAT was the most IMPORTANT part!!
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Similiar to the issuse with Kaworu's donor, Kiel's problems just aren't considered "important" enough to address somewhere in-series, it seems. Just a hunch.
BUT, whatever the hell happened to Kiel could have been Second Impact related. He looks healthy as well as actually standing across from Gendo in the flashback photo(s). It was part of some quick flash as Fuyutsuki narrated in episode 21', I believe.
Similiar to the issuse with Kaworu's donor, Kiel's problems just aren't considered "important" enough to address somewhere in-series, it seems. Just a hunch.
BUT, whatever the hell happened to Kiel could have been Second Impact related. He looks healthy as well as actually standing across from Gendo in the flashback photo(s). It was part of some quick flash as Fuyutsuki narrated in episode 21', I believe.
Last edited by Sailor Star Dust on Thu Jul 08, 2010 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I don't know who locked this thread with no headsup, but it IS supposed to be serious despite some humor at first (note the fact the second half of my post gave actual input on what happened with Kiel).
Naw, please remove that first image since it came across as too jokey. And let's all try this again and keep things on-topic.
Edit: Fixed the topic title.
Naw, please remove that first image since it came across as too jokey. And let's all try this again and keep things on-topic.
Edit: Fixed the topic title.
Last edited by Sailor Star Dust on Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Whoever changed the topic did it wrong. There's no way to tell why Keel became a cyborg and that's not what I intended the thread to be about. The thread's about the idea that Keel's body was "regrown" around his mechanical insides in a manner similar to that in which Evas are grown, as the alternative is having all his insides scooped out.
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So change it to something else.
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"I CAN'T HELP IT THAT I WANT TO EAT MY OWN VULVA AND SHARE IT WITH A LOVED ONE!"-Reichu
"I have a fetish for naked women with stigmata playing ping pong in the mud. Is there a name for that?" -Kaiser O-Ornette-dono-sama
“Don’t do that; that was probably hooker money.” -SSD on me holding money with my mouth
"I CAN'T HELP IT THAT I WANT TO EAT MY OWN VULVA AND SHARE IT WITH A LOVED ONE!"-Reichu
"I have a fetish for naked women with stigmata playing ping pong in the mud. Is there a name for that?" -Kaiser O-Ornette-dono-sama
“Don’t do that; that was probably hooker money.” -SSD on me holding money with my mouth
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Fullmetal Alkeelmist.
Ah, that's right! I forgot about that. Had Keel actually been at the site of the Second Impact when it happened, though? It seems unlikely that he'd knowingly place himself in such danger when even Gendo knew enough to leave before things got hairy.
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Y'know, Keel's lower body reminds me of Tunneliel more than anything else. Maybe he was trying to get his soul transferred to an Evangelion, but failed?
(Also, what SSD and Zap said about that dinosaur and the thread title)
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The image of Kiel's remains is a big mess... but maybe these will help.
BTW:
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/m26_C342_comp.jpg
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/m26_C342_col-disc.jpg
http://www.evacommentary.org/images_production/groundwork_m26_C342.gif
(I wonder how his remains are laying flat on the floor when he was seated and appear to have dropped straight down from there...)
Here is Kiel -- he was at least designed to superficially look like a normal human being (visor aside).
The spine does look incredibly long in the "cyborg leftovers" image, but FWIW the part that's poking up at the bottom looks like the lumbar section. Perhaps the spinal column snapped in half on the tumble down.
As for how Kiel got the way he did: Some kind of degenerative condition has been forwarded. This would result in his parts gradually being replaced, until finally little more than his head, arms, and skin are left. The cybernetization itself would be inelegant and improvised, since they're basically winging it as more and more of his body fails.
Most of his body being destroyed as a result of some unknown incident is the one I tend to go with, though. Having soft tissues generated over his new cyborg parts seems plausible enough.
BTW:
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/m26_C342_comp.jpg
http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/m26_C342_col-disc.jpg
http://www.evacommentary.org/images_production/groundwork_m26_C342.gif
(I wonder how his remains are laying flat on the floor when he was seated and appear to have dropped straight down from there...)
Here is Kiel -- he was at least designed to superficially look like a normal human being (visor aside).
The spine does look incredibly long in the "cyborg leftovers" image, but FWIW the part that's poking up at the bottom looks like the lumbar section. Perhaps the spinal column snapped in half on the tumble down.
As for how Kiel got the way he did: Some kind of degenerative condition has been forwarded. This would result in his parts gradually being replaced, until finally little more than his head, arms, and skin are left. The cybernetization itself would be inelegant and improvised, since they're basically winging it as more and more of his body fails.
Most of his body being destroyed as a result of some unknown incident is the one I tend to go with, though. Having soft tissues generated over his new cyborg parts seems plausible enough.
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Nothing like fanwanking over some old man's spine.
Literally.
But, wait... if Keel tanged, shouldn't his spine have tanged, too? Why would it be the only natural part of his body left behind? Unless it's actually just another mechanical piece designed to resemble a normal spine(which would also explain why it's so damn long).
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Re: Was Keel's body regrown like an Eva's?
NAveryW wrote:I don't think an operation of that sort ever happened. An entirely different procedure occurred.
Here's what probably happened: Sometime after Second Impact, Keel Lorenz was either dying or he actually died. Whatever caused this, most of his body was destroyed. He was too important to Seele to lose, however, so his body was "regrown". His head may have been his original head, and his arms may be his original arms as well, but the rest of him was regenerated around his mechanical parts. Or maybe what we see of him was entirely regenerated and his soul was harvested from his old body, which is now rotting somewhere.
It's an interesting thought, perhaps the procedure was similar (or a precursor) to Shinji's entry plug soup treatment, but due to technical limitations it didn't go quite right so all the implants were required. It's clear from the ep20 that the salvage operation doesn't have the best track record.
Keel has a robo-spine. Keel is /m/echa
Last edited by master_lloyd on Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Nothing like fanwanking over some old man's spine.
Maybe his spine is PWM. It's simply way too damn long.
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Re: Nothing like fanwanking over some old man's spine.
We cant even tell how tall keel was, let's not jump to conclusions.
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Re: Nothing like fanwanking over some old man's spine.
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Re: Nothing like fanwanking over some old man's spine.
Got a problem? PWM will cure what ails ya! Body tanging? PWM! Degenerative condition? PWM! It's everything you need! side effects may include left-behind spine.
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Re: Nothing like fanwanking over some old man's spine.
Or maybe, like Reichu suggested, it just broke in two and all the other parts hide the break.
It's pretty well established (and commonsensical) that inorganic normal matter does not behave like organic (LCL-based) matter when it comes to tanging.
(His ribs look like pockmarked bent tombstones. Bizarre.)
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You're either really bad at interpreting jokes or really good at pretending you are and I have no idea which.-Monk Ed
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!(<-link to lunacy)...Taste me, if you can bear it. (Warning: Language NSFW)
The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster
That doesn't seem likely. The part poking up at the bottom pretty much looks like the rest of the spine. Same as the abandoned Evas, which have long, long spines that don't seem to change or terminate.
Furthermore, since we know the tubes and whatnot go on for a while as they need to be connected to something, it's likely the spine does as well. He certainly doesn't have any legs, regardless of what the production image shows.
But if I'd done that I'd have one of those nasty "Edited 1 times" things at the bottom of the post. I hate those.ZapX wrote:So change it to something else.
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