Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:02 am

The discarded storyboards about Asuka remind me of this.
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Postby Chrad » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:45 am

View Original PostSaltyJoe wrote:The discarded storyboards about Asuka remind me of this.
Perfect.

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Postby Kendrix » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:07 am

Sorry, but I think it's YOU who don't get it.
Think of Annos original announcement, that he wanted to go back to the portrayal of willpower ands that "Evangelion is a story where the hero faces heavy setbacks, but still finds the will to go on"

I don't think that Anno was going for the '1337 depressed show for intelligent ppl', he despised that hardcore-dom.
Yes, the bad stuff happens in the most impractical Moments, but the thing that makes EVA EVA isn't being depressed, but STOPPING being depressed.

Shinji Ikari is the boy who after 26 episodes of horrible horrors chose to LIVE
How did he stop being himself when he did a similar thin just a few weeks earlier than in the original storyline?
You may think its stupid, but the final scene was presented thoroughly positive, together with romantic music and Mari's "He saved us!"


Anno wanted Mari to be influenced more by others because she was supposed to be different/feel somewhat out of place from the beginning.
She was intended to be the way she was.
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:17 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Shinji Ikari is the boy who after 26 episodes of horrible horrors chose to LIVE
How did he stop being himself when he did a similar thin just a few weeks earlier than in the original storyline?

He did the opposite in NME, but this has been already discussed to death. The context of Shinji's actions will only be truly revealed in 3.0.

But i have to say, if we take the final scene as a metaphor for Shinji defeating his demons and achieving triumph through his will.... then boy, this metaphor sucks.

Shinji gets into Eva-01 and starts screaming like he's being sodomized with a cactus. People percieve this as him "getting over his issues" and "growing a pair" despite that:
    -everything he achieves happens by deus ex machina, the mechanisms of which he knows almost nothing about. His raw emtions and desires are put into effect with almost no control or consideration. Basically, he gets his wish fullfilled, and the mess that this causes is left for others to deal with.

    -he is damning the consequences of his actions on a personal ("I don't care about myself!") and on a global ("I don't care about the world!") level. He doesn't want to face anything outside the scope of his immediate goal (getting Rei out of Zeruel), let alone the difficulties of life on a larger scale

    -the only reason he can pilot the Eva in the first place is that his mother is in it. In his case, we know that for a fact. Can we really describe something as a heroic triumph that is so dependent on random circumstances like whose kid Shinji happens to be?

    -moreover, the Evangelions, on a whole, are the creations of a cabal who follow insane doctrines in an ancient conspiracy. Every time someone gets into an Eva, he/she unwillingly furthers their goals, simply because the things can't be used for anything else but to further Seele's goals: kill Angels or start an Impact. Outside of those functions, Evas are completely useless. As far as the development and personal growth of the pilots go, the Evas are traps. It's only the experiences they go through while piloting them that matter, but as long as they do anything through Eva, their wills are shackled, and their growth is stalled.

    -if not for Kaworu, the world as we know it would have ended right then and there. From Shinji's perspective, the consequences of his action were delayed by random intervention. If we accept that as an "all is well that ends well" scenario, then it's perfectly okay to sit around and wait for Superman if you accidentally set your house on fire.
But more importantly: at the end of the series and in EoE, Shinji truly confronted the darkest recesses of his mind, coming to an internal revolution, and then going on to face the external challenges of the world. At the end of 2.0, nothing of the sorts happens: he blocks out things, goes "Holy shit, gonna get me some Rei!", nearly wrecks the world, and yet, he doesn't really alter the course the true manipulators set for the events (see: Kaworu putting a stop to his escapades), and then gets trapped in some netherworld limbo.

This is not a bad position to continue the story from. In fact, i think it's great. But if this was really Anno's idea of portraying the completion of the hero's journey, then i can't help but think that he really lost his touch sometime during the production of 2.0.

Sorry for the longwinded, off topic rant. If the mods feel like it, put this post in the thrash or move it to another thread.
Last edited by SaltyJoe on Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lucretius » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:26 am

View Original PostLiLi wrote:. and that scene of her looking at Shinji and Rei in the classroom with something akin to interest and a sort of "shippy" smile (as I recall it)... before catching herself and acting grumpy again.

Ah yes, another completely nonsensical scene. What is she, a saint? "Oh boy, that girl I don't like is happy with the guy I'm (inexplicably) interested in. Hooray!"

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:57 am

View Original PostLucretius wrote:Ah yes, another completely nonsensical scene. What is she, a saint? "Oh boy, that girl I don't like is happy with the guy I'm (inexplicably) interested in. Hooray!"

This one? She's just eavesdropping with her mouth open.
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Postby shinji_ryoji_89 » Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:15 pm

The more I watch the ending of 2.22 the more I think that it's not meant at all to be an exactly happy ending. Yes, it's Shinji taking a step forward, but for what price? Pretty much ending the world. And I don't think that Anno wants to condone that. That, and there are also those close ups of the SDAT player which in Evangelion pretty much symbolizes the isolation that Shinji is in, so I think it's there to tell us that Shinji is no way near close to his maturity. He took a step forward but he is probably only going to be pushed way back.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:12 pm

I'm not gonna go on a long rant but I'll just say I love the ending of 2.0.

It's a false happy ending. It's played as a high emotional success for Shinji but it's really just Shinji being himself. But handled in an easy to get swept up in visual extravaganza necessary to end a movie.

Shinji always places his self importance on how others think of him. With his desire to be loved by his Father gone (it isn't really but he tells himself it is) he's just switched that desire to be loved to another person- Rei.

In NGE when Kaworu came to Tokyo-3 Shinji felt he had no one to rely on (he did but he was too lost in his own head to realize it). So with very little reason Shinji latched onto Kaworu to make himself feel worthy. When Kaworu turned out to be an Angel he felt betrayed by him (why, the kid had been around all of 48 hours) and essentially became a broken shell after killing him- the shell of Shinji that's in End of Evangelion.

Now here in Rebuild Shinji has essentially done the exact same thing only earlier in the storyline. He's pushed everyone aside because of his petty insecurities and has placed all his hopes for human connection on one person- Rei Ayanami. Of course what we know and he doesn't is that Rei really is replaceable. She's a goddamned clone.

I'm looking forward to 3.0 to see how this will go down. I mean what happens when you find out the only person in the world you really want to be with is not only a clone but is partially a genetic copy of your mother. It should be quite a sting to Shinji's confidence and if anything should make for some good drama.

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Postby Jayfive » Thu Dec 09, 2010 4:33 pm

'Hi, im Rei Ayanami, hows it hanging'

Firstly isnt the purple background there in there the same as a shot of Mari in the trailer?

Cant be sure but that Multi-rei shot puts me in mind of some sort of cell for some reason.

God help us if the plot turns out to be SEELE gathering alternate versions of the 'children chosen by fate' from different dimensions or some other Marvel crossover-esque nonsense.

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Postby NAveryW » Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:13 pm

Almost this entire page is in the wrong thread.
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Postby Chrad » Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:27 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Yes, the bad stuff happens in the most impractical Moments, but the thing that makes EVA EVA isn't being depressed, but STOPPING being depressed. Shinji Ikari is the boy who after 26 episodes of horrible horrors chose to LIVE


Sorry, but I think it's YOU who don't get it.


I agree, but what made it so powerful was that before that moment came, he endured so much suffering and so many setbacks, until all he could do was huddle up and cry. And yet at the end of it all he somehow found the strength and wisdom to make the right choice.

My point was that, should the climax of 2.0 be portrayed as a totally positive thing, it's hard to imagine much beating him down in the coming installments. If you can bring a girl back from the dead through pure willpower alone, what reason is there to be afraid of anything, or to lack confidence in your abilities? Shinji would emerge feeling pretty shit-hot. And if that happens, he becomes a pretty standard super robot protagonist.


View Original PostKendrix wrote:You may think its stupid, but the final scene was presented thoroughly positive, together with romantic music and Mari's "He saved us!"
What about Shinji "loosing his human form!", the brewing apocalypse, and the third-last shot being of Misato's encouraging cheers replaced by a look of horror?

SaltyJoe, shinji_ryoji_89 and Gendo'sPapa did a good job of summarizing the things that complicate the ending. If it's to be presented as a heroic triumph in 3.0, then it was truly terrible writing.

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Anno wanted Mari to be influenced more by others because she was supposed to be different/feel somewhat out of place from the beginning.
She was intended to be the way she was.
Sure, but that doesn't make it good writing. She's out of place in unwelcome ways, such as being such a blatant fan-service bot that she feels totally gratuitous in the show known for :misato_service:
Ridiculous cat-girlisms, wiggling her butt for the camera when she's working on Shinji's SDAT, constantly talking about her breasts...For God's sake.

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Postby Reichu » Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:18 pm

Tried to split out posts, and it's practically impossible. Everybody is all over the place.

Can we focus back on the book and take the other stuff to more appropriate threads? Thx.
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Postby Kendrix » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:07 pm

K... so what about those Anno interviews?
Alas poor Kaworu, I knew him well...

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Postby SEELE-01 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:09 pm

How about scans of the Eva-05's old desings (you know... when it had legs)
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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:44 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:K... so what about those Anno interviews?

Still need to send them to 172...whatever. After nabbing some more scans. Library is insane right now, and so am I, so ya'll can wait a little longer.

@arael: Not a scan, but here.
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Postby 1731298478 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:38 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Still need to send them to 172...whatever. After nabbing some more scans. Library is insane right now, and so am I, so ya'll can wait a little longer.


To put it mildly, there's no rush at all... there's an awful lot of Tsurumaki to deal with ^^

I've done the first draft of an initial 4-section excerpt, and I'm revising it right now.

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Postby LiLi » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:14 am

^Thank you for your efforts, good Sir. ;)
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Postby Xard » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:16 am

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:To put it mildly, there's no rush at all... there's an awful lot of Tsurumaki to deal with ^^

I've done the first draft of an initial 4-section excerpt, and I'm revising it right now.


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Postby Kendrix » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:06 pm

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:To put it mildly, there's no rush at all... there's an awful lot of Tsurumaki to deal with ^^

I've done the first draft of an initial 4-section excerpt, and I'm revising it right now.


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Do your best^^
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:56 am

I think I finally discovered the reason behind why 2.0 is the way it is:


Its not because of having not a clue where to go and an overall lack of direction, its because of having Too many ideas and the constant influx of them throughout its written process, thus diluting it altogether with juggling the abundance of ideas that's out there and giving off the vibe of having "a lack of direction", which is not true

its perhaps because there's too many possibilities of directions to take it and the attempt to fuse and Frankenstein them all in one
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