Fanservice in Evangelion: Good or Bad?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Jun 04, 2010 9:03 am

View Original Posttomrule123 wrote:To answer the topic, fan-service in NGE here is not so bad (though a bit too much in EoE).

I felt kinda disgusted with the hospital room scene, so that would probably qualify as more of a fan-disservice.

View Original PostBocca wrote:The fan-service scenes in NGE were somewhat disappointing for me. No, not like that but because they didn't seem to be having any purpose. For example the first appearance of Asuka where her skirt was flipped up by the wind.

Scenes like that make me have very, very violent facepalms. Most of these scenes were reduced in the later episode tough and stuff like the overly tight suits didn't bother me.

If there wasn't a panty in the shot then it really can't be considered a "panty shot", can it?

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Postby TheLobe » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:42 am

mostly (not in rebuild) thers a point to it. When most of the cast is naked they are shown to be more vulnerable and failinmg to hold together there image, and Misato being slutty has significance.

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Postby tomrule123 » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:15 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I felt kinda disgusted with the hospital room scene, so that would probably qualify as more of a fan-disservice.


You're not the only one who felt disgusted watching that scene. :vomit: Though it does set the fan-services' tone for the movie, which makes it way different from the series' use of fan-service.

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Postby the_seventh_child » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:00 pm

If you tag Shinji's 'moving' scene in the hospital, as fanservice-disservice-etc, then you are badly mistaken. Badly.
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Postby Dark doom » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:05 pm

I feel there is relativly little fanservice in EVA, at least in comparison to say, Gurren lagann (Yoko, of cause), The Cowboy Bebop film (Faye), or (dare I say it?) Black lagoon (Which I LOVE!).

Sure we get the ocational Panty shot from Asuka or Misato's "And of cause, more fansrvice"! line, but in comparison to the above anime's, EVA is relativly clean.
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Postby sephirotic » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:06 pm

View Original Postthe_seventh_child wrote:If you tag Shinji's 'moving' scene in the hospital, as fanservice-disservice-etc, then you are badly mistaken. Badly.


[2]

That is NOT a "fanservice" neither a gratuite scene. It's an important scene, it has a meaning, but i won't be telling you, you don't deserve to know!

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:04 pm

View Original Postsephirotic wrote:That is NOT a "fanservice" neither a gratuite scene. It's an important scene, it has a meaning, but i won't be telling you, you don't deserve to know!

I agree. I just couldn't think of any other examples of what could be considered "Fanservice" in EoE other than that.

As a matter of fact, very little of the nudity in EoE could really be considered fanservice. It all meant something greater than even just "having a point to it."

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Postby Halicat » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:52 pm

It depends for me really. I'm of the anti-sexualisation of everything/porn persuasion in life and therefore in entertainment, especially when it comes to using minors, so I take a general dislike bordering on hatred to it, but sometimes it's *just* acceptable to me, when done in a completely humorous or touching way that tells you about the characters, rather than just degrade them for horny morons. [That being said, I don't think all cases of sexuality expressed in media are 'fanservice' as it CAN be portrayed as it really is in life without it's intention being to appease anyone's genitalia or even how sex and nudity are used in EoE as being an example of something that is in no shape or form, fanservice.]

The fanservice in the original Eva fitted that perfectly for me, Anno used it masterfully to set the viewer up later on/tell you about the character's personalities, the fanservice in rebuild on the other hand, pretty much has my contempt,

SPOILER: Show
That ridiculous focus on Asuka's rear and then on her cleavage in 0.2 just distracted from what was otherwise a lovely and touching scene between her and Shinji, in my opinion.


I think it would definitely put some people off, my fianceé refuses to watch Eva at all because of it, perhaps if it wasn't there, maybe he would and I assume it would be the same for others who feel that way against fanservice [Or, in this case, at least against it for doing it with minors.]

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Postby LealahLupin3 » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:38 am

I agree. I just couldn't think of any other examples of what could be considered "Fanservice" in EoE other than that.

As a matter of fact, very little of the nudity in EoE could really be considered fanservice. It all meant something greater than even just "having a point to it."


I'm honestly surprised that no one has brought this up, but the fan-service-y scene that got on my nerves the most was the scene in EoE when Gendo sticks his hand in Rei's breast to initiate Instrumentality. No matter how much you argue the validity, he honestly could have joined with her by touching her anywhere. To make matters worse, his hand doesn't go all the way into her immediately so we get a very clear shot of him literally groping her before his hand slides in. Why do that if not for fan service? He even moves his arm to her stomach when his hand is inside of her. Why not just have him go in through her stomach to begin with? Or if they wanted to do something at his arms level, why not her sternum?

Most of the fan service never bothered me. It served its purpose and wasn't dwelt on. I don't even remember the fan service in 1.xx since it's been so long since I watched it and I didn't like it to begin with.
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Postby Oz » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:46 am

I thought Gendo groping Rei was way more disturbing than fanserviceish. It has the same sort of reversal of fanservice as the hospital scene, but only to a "lesser" degree.
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Postby 0x2eleven » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:25 am

View Original PostLealahLupin3 wrote:I'm honestly surprised that no one has brought this up, but the fan-service-y scene that got on my nerves the most was the scene in EoE when Gendo sticks his hand in Rei's breast to initiate Instrumentality. No matter how much you argue the validity, he honestly could have joined with her by touching her anywhere.


This scene also kind of irks me, but for a slightly different reason. It's true, he probably could have touched her somewhere else. When I watch it I hear a loud voice in my head screaming "there is a reason for it!" and a quiet voice whisper "no there isn't."

The argument that this is fanservice is supported by more than just the brief fondling, I think. When Gendo's hand descends toward's Rei's crotch, Rei's response, a small recoil and a pained sigh, almost seems sexual. Still, the fact the scene contains evidence that it might be fanservice as well as evidence that it was intentionally made ambiguous leads me to believe that it has a some meaning beyond simple perversion, and is thus justified as a means for expressing an idea.

When I see the scene, my stomach churns for two reasons. One is the fondling, and the other is the image of a guy sticking his hand inside a person and rummaging through their flesh and organs like it's no biggie. It's a shocking image that leads me to have even more shocking images flash through my mind. Really, this is one of the scenes that legitimizes statements that Evangelion mind-f***s everyone who watches it, because that's exactly what this scene does.

What I'm trying to say is that the rawness of the scene completely thwarts any possibility of it getting a perverted rise out of me. I think Anno sought to elicit my reaction in all viewers. Because I believe he planned this all out, I don't think it's fair to call this fanservice. If anything, it's a bait-and-switch manuever, and I wouldn't even call it that. The bait, seeing Rei's boob grabbed, isn't really all that hot considering Gendo is the one doing it, he's doing it with that characteristic grimace on his face, and the environment in which it all takes place is completely unnerving and about as un-sexual as any environment can possibly be. There's a bleeding, semi-morphous blob of who knows what crucified right behind them. It's definitely not the place for sexy time.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:48 am

View Original PostLealahLupin3 wrote:I'm honestly surprised that no one has brought this up, but the fan-service-y scene that got on my nerves the most was the scene in EoE when Gendo sticks his hand in Rei's breast to initiate Instrumentality. No matter how much you argue the validity, he honestly could have joined with her by touching her anywhere.
View Original Post0x2eleven wrote:When I watch it I hear a loud voice in my head screaming "there is a reason for it!" and a quiet voice whisper "no there isn't."
Derp. This goes back to what I was saying earlier in this thread: Anno using the same symbol that's connected to two opposing meanings. There's essentially three things happening in that scene that have to be understood separately and together. First, is Anno's elaborately (but subtly) developed hand motif that begins in ep. 1, crops up throughout the series, but mostly repeats with Gendo in ep. 24 and Shinji in the beginning of EoE. The progression essentially takes us from blood as source of life connected to Rei and motherhood (LCL smells like blood) which can also stand in for death and mortality, to Adam's embryo in Gendo's hand which is another obvious symbol for the beginning, to semen on Shinji's hands in EoE over Asuka which symbolizes sexual maturation and the origin of life as well. The second thing to understand is Rei being the omni-symbol for motherhood while she is also this teenager who, if she were normal, would be coming into her sexuality (she alludes to this tellingly in ep. 14's monologue).

So think about it, Gendo is taking the Adam embryo and pressing it to Rei's breast which is both suggestive of nursing and of sexual contact, while he then moves towards Rei's Uterus, literally placing the Adam embryo inside her. But notice how this process is backwards. Usually a baby would be born and then nurse, but Gendo's movement from the breast to the uterus suggests a retroversion - a return to the beginning. This is precisely what will occur later in Instrumentality. You could also look at it as circular, if you read the entire action as both sexual and an attempt to return to the beginning.

Again, I don't think it's fanservice. I can't imagine anyone really being titillated by it. It's like the opening masturbation scene in the respect that, yes, it involves sex, but it is intricately related to the narrative and its multitudinous and interconnected symbolism. It certainly makes sense that to create this new being that sexuality would be involved - the joining of Adam and Lilith. We see the very same symbolic act in a radically different way later with Unit-01, the Lance, and Lilith.
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Postby Dark doom » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:26 am

View Original PostOz wrote:I thought Gendo groping Rei was way more disturbing than fanserviceish. It has the same sort of reversal of fanservice as the hospital scene, but only to a "lesser" degree.

I have to agree with this.
Perverted adult feeling up 14 year old is WAY more disturbing than some hotty going "FANSERVICE!".
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Postby Shin-seiki » Sun Jun 06, 2010 6:57 am

Gendo's hand thru Rei's breast, like so much of what we see in EoE, serves as a call-back or reference to something that happened in previously in the series, in this case Shinji's groping Rei's breast in #05. Note that while Shinji's behavior was just inadvertent pseudo-sexual harassment (and Shinji was flustered and withdrew his hand as soon as Rei spoke up), Gendo's act is invasive and rape-like, using her body for his own purpose. Note as well that Rei shortly thereafter rejects Gendo in favor of Shinji.
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Postby Halicat » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:03 am

Eva Yojimbo just sums it up perfectly.

I never saw that scene as titillating in any way, I'm sure I wasn't the only one who physically cringed in disgust as how creepy it was. It's a lot like Shinji's masturbation scene: Anno gives the audience what they want, seeing Asuka's breasts and then Shinji's little episode to go with it. Likewise, Anno gives the viewers what they want: the illusion of touching Rei's breasts, but they get Gendo with his creepy foetus hand going right through her and basically inflicting pain as he drags it right down through her thorax into her abdomen.

Things that are sexual are not always pretty to look at [Just look at Blue Velvet] I'm sure anyone who's engaged it can testify it can be a bit of messy business sometimes [And not that way either.] We tend to fantasise the hell out of it eg. Bodice rippers, pornography etc but Otakus are notorious for this, to the point it's unhealthy. Anno just brings you back to reality about how gritty and un-sexy sex can really be, abiet in a very out there way, but it's effective nonetheless.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:23 pm

View Original PostShin-seiki wrote:Gendo's hand thru Rei's breast...
THIS, plus another thing I got to mention is that when he gets further down it also makes one think of an umbilical cord.

Halicat wrote:Things that are sexual are not always pretty to look at [Just look at Blue Velvet]
Or Irreversible, which is even more disturbing than Blue Velvet, probably.
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Postby carla » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:09 pm

i never really minded any of the so-called fanservice in EVA. i found it all very "lite." if the fanservice is there to show or explain an integral facet of a character ("thermal expansion" and such) or to drive a narrative point (RIAO's panty shot as an expression of Shinji's desire to live the life of a regular teenager instead of an EVA pilot), then it's okay with me.

the slutsuit, i could've lived without. and even then, it was easy for me to focus on what she was saying rather than what she was wearing. everything else i have no problem with.
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Postby CyberXIII » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:40 pm

Fanservice in and of itself is more or less harmless. It's there to help attract viewers, but it really doesn't work as the basis of the story.

In terms of Evangelion, like most other major story conventions of the time, it's used, played with, and subverted. The episode with Sandolphon used it the normal way...whereas EoE used it to disgust you. Rei naked was supposed to set up the viewer for a fall so to speak; the intention was to titillate the viewers before disgusting you with what Gendo was doing...

Same thing happened throughout the series, with the fanservice really just there to serve a purpose. The pool scene in Sandolphon's episode was designed to hint at Asuka and Shinji being attracted to each other. The hot springs scene did something similar with Misato's scar. Ireul's episode...well, I can't remember that one too well. The fanservice was there to get your interested so you'd pay attention to the character development.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:51 pm

View Original PostCyberXIII wrote:Ireul's episode...well, I can't remember that one too well. The fanservice was there to get your interested so you'd pay attention to the character development.

So the Angel could get a better look as it was taking over the systems.

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Postby oOoOoOo » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:06 pm

Gendo putting his hand through Rei's breast, to me, called to mind the relationship between Rei and Yui, and the whole reason Gendo was doing everything. Rei was always a little bit more than a daughter for him, I think.

Now, anyway, all this talk about fanservice is really a discussion about what turns males on, when men are actually sexualized just as much as women are. The thing is, society considers male sexual traits to be awesome, and female sexual traits to be depraved and evil.

Consider biology. A woman's biological worth is her wombcraft, her physical body, upper body for milk production and lower body for baby-pushing. A man's biological worth, on the other hand, is his ability to kill things and protect his genetic legacy.

An example of a sexualized woman would be a half-naked model in a magazine. An example of a sexualized man would be James Bond. The male equivalent of skimpy lingerie is a tuxedo.

Just go outside and look at how men and women dress differently. Even my female friends who complain about creepy guys leering at them along the bike path still wear outfits designed to demonstrate how ready they are to have their wombs filled. (This doesn't excuse creepiness, but I accept that men will look at my legs if I expose them, just as I will look at a man's million-dollar suit if he wears it, or his gleaming Corvette if he drives it.)

So Ikari Gendo is basically fanservice for women, as he is one of the most powerful men in the Eva world, and dresses in a "look at how important I am" uniform. Same with Kaji, as he is a special agent who probably can handle a gun and "get things done". Do you know how many young girls wanted to get fucked by Hitler in the 1930s? God, the stories my grandmother could tell you. And most action heroes (Jack Bauer anyone?) are sociopathic monsters.

Notice how in male-female pairs the male is often older? Age means experience, which means you can kill and protect and provide better. A younger woman means more chances to create babies. Biologically speaking, old guys and schoolgirls makes perfect sense. So it isn't surprising that schoolgirls are fetishized...because, biologically, having sex with adolescent girls is the point of being a man.

If you look around outside, right now, today, you'll see "fanservice" everywhere, so it makes sense that we'd see it in TV shows and whatnot. The stuff in Evangelion (any of the versions) doesn't strike me as unnecessary. I mean, if I put on a really tight plugsuit, I'd probably look at myself and think how tight and revealing it is. Sort of hard to ignore that shit.

(That being said, I wish men and women alike were evaluated on different levels, but it's pretty hard to fight biology. Also, a lot of this rant really only makes sense in a reasonably egalitarian society.)
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