What was SEELE's purpose for Kaworu?

[chaosakita]

So did they try to trick him into merging with Lilith? Or something? Other than to be a plot device, what's the actual reason for Kaworu's creation?

[Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion]

So did they try to trick him into merging with Lilith? Or something?

I assumed better dummy plugs for their MP Evas + That. I really don't have an answer in all honesty, this has to be like my last non-Rebuild question of the franchise.

[Ornette]

There's a lot of ideas here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=2095

But it's a pretty long thread.

[Reichu]

So did they try to trick him into merging with Lilith? Or something? Other than to be a plot device, what's the actual reason for Kaworu's creation?

Oh, boy. You sure you want to open that can of worms?

Here's a poignant example of the pain involved.

Also, hitting the Discussion thread list for "Kaworu" (probably making a thread merge inevitable):

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=8200
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=4952
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=2027
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=581
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=53

As you can see, this place has spewed up quite a bit of thought on the matter.

But it's a pretty long thread.

If memory serves, it reaches a sort of "burn-out and degeneration" phase, then managed to persist for a while longer before I put a bullet in its head. So anybody who's never looked at the thread before can just keep that in mind and bail ship as soon as things start looking ug-ly.

[Eva Yojimbo]

There was another thread started on the subject... I think it was by Monk Ed but I really can't remember that offered an intriguing interpretation and alternative that solved most of the problems with all of the theories presented in the epic Fanwank thread if we were to just accept the idea that Kaworu had some piece of knowledge given to him by SEELE that we don't see in the show. I wish I could remember it in detail, or remember the thread, or who exactly started it, but it was one of the most interesting developments in the past several years of this problem.

[Reichu]

There was another thread started on the subject... I think it was by Monk Ed

Monk Ed doesn't have that many posts, so it was easy to find.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=5543

[Eva Yojimbo]

Excellent. I wasn't sure if it was Monk Ed who posted it or not. Thanks for the find.

[AuraTwilight]

Assuming Kaworu wasn't some deliberate creation of SEELE, they sent him on a suicide mission to get himself killed and take out Unit 02 if he can.

[Zeruel]

I was also curious as to what is the relationship between Kaworu and Seele it really wasn't explained at all in the series or movies and was wondering is he like adam to some guy like Rei was to yui and lilith? and why did seele send him if they knew who he was???

[AuraTwilight]

Just like Rei is Lilith's soul in a Lilin body, Kaworu is Adam's soul in a Lilin-shaped body (though Kaworu is different in that his body is Angelic).

SEELE found him, maybe created him, and sent him on a suicide mission.

[Azathoth]

SEELE found him, maybe created him, and sent him on a suicide mission.

Created him by accident and then found him later, most likely. It's quite obvious that he's the result of human DNA being "donated" to Adam, although the source of said DNA has yet to be agreed upon (are there any logical possible donors besides Dr. Katsuragi and Gendou, though?) Why exactly SEELE did this in the first place is not really very clear at all, probably the result of some Dead Sea Scroll instruction that was intended to mean "ATTN: DON'T DO THIS OR YOU ARE FUCKING SCREWED" and got read "DO THIS."

Later, after resultant unpleasantness, SEELE appear to have retrieved him and the Adambryo from Antarctica and sent them to Germany, or somewhere. Where exactly Kaworu was all that time is also remarkably unclear, but we know that Adam was in Germany and it would make a degree of sense to keep them close together.

And as AuraTwilight said, SEELE sent him to NERV because they needed him good and dead. SEELE's plan for Third Impact didn't involve Adam, remember. That's why they needed Evas in the first place. As far as they were concerned, Adam was just something to get well out of the way before they made their move.

[Reichu]

(are there any logical possible donors besides Dr. Katsuragi and Gendou, though?)

Gendo isn't even a logical possibility, but see the threads about that topic for the reason why not.

If Kaworu's creation wasn't deliberate on the part of Seele, I presume they took advantage of the situation to put Adam's soul into a more limited vessel with whom they could directly interact and manipulate for potential future use. (Aside from their cryptic words to Kaworu in the anime itself, NGE2 may provide further substantiation -- but more on that when I translate the 3I scenario in question. Kaworu seems to help Seele become a god at the expense of everyone else.)

[AuraTwilight]

Gendo isn't even a logical possibility, but see the threads about that topic for the reason why not.

LIES

[planet news]

Gendo doesn't look at all like Kaworu. There was another much better reason why too but I don't remember it so ...

[chaosakita]

And as AuraTwilight said, SEELE sent him to NERV because they needed him good and dead. SEELE's plan for Third Impact didn't involve Adam, remember. That's why they needed Evas in the first place. As far as they were concerned, Adam was just something to get well out of the way before they made their move.

Is Adam and Lilith being able to form a being capable of starting instrumentality just coincidence?

[CyberXIII]

I was reading the other thread, when I noticed two things.

First, the Gaghiel-smelling-out-Adam thing. I disagree with this for two reasons. One, Kaworu isn't a pure Angel to begin with; he clearly has actual human DNA in him like Rei does. Second, Gaghiel came looking for his daddy, but there was a giant clone of it (Eva-02) sitting on the same ship. The fish might have gotten the two confused.

Second, Kaworu knows full well what would happen if he merged with Lillith instead of Adam. I think he was trying to delay Instrumentality by killing himself....except Gendo ripped his soul out and stuck it in the embryo after Shinji crushed him...

[chaosakita]

Second, Kaworu knows full well what would happen if he merged with Lillith instead of Adam. I think he was trying to delay Instrumentality by killing himself....except Gendo ripped his soul out and stuck it in the embryo after Shinji crushed him...

Did SEELE want instrumentality on those terms then?

[AuraTwilight]

Is Adam and Lilith being able to form a being capable of starting instrumentality just coincidence?

No. Infact, their ability to do that is precisely why they weren't supposed to land on the same planet.

First, the Gaghiel-smelling-out-Adam thing. I disagree with this for two reasons. One, Kaworu isn't a pure Angel to begin with; he clearly has actual human DNA in him like Rei does. Second, Gaghiel came looking for his daddy, but there was a giant clone of it (Eva-02) sitting on the same ship. The fish might have gotten the two confused.

Second, Kaworu knows full well what would happen if he merged with Lillith instead of Adam. I think he was trying to delay Instrumentality by killing himself....except Gendo ripped his soul out and stuck it in the embryo after Shinji crushed him...

So how does Gaghiel smelling Eva-02 at all contradict with Gaghiel smelling out Adam?

Kaworu merging with Lilith wouldn't of caused Instrumentality.

Gendo doesn't look at all like Kaworu. There was another much better reason why too but I don't remember it so ...

I'm willing to let physical resemblence go due to Bishonen rules, but Gendo being the donor creates and perfects so much thematic, symbolic, and narrativistic sense and symmetry.

[Reichu]

I'm willing to let physical resemblence go due to Bishonen rules, but Gendo being the donor creates and perfects so much thematic, symbolic, and narrativistic sense and symmetry.

Tell it to this thread. Oh, wait...

[CyberXIII]

So how does Gaghiel smelling Eva-02 at all contradict with Gaghiel smelling out Adam?

Kaworu merging with Lilith wouldn't of caused Instrumentality.

1) I'm saying that Gaghiel might have sensed Eva-02, not Adam, since they're so similar.
2) Yes it would. That's why Kaworu wanted Shinji to kill him.