NGE2: First Ancestral Race and Seeds of Life

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Postby CJD » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:53 pm

View Original PostZenoseiya wrote:Lilith is evil and engineered the 1st impact in order to try becoming a god?


Reading this thread, are we basing this solely on the "She tells Rei to get the Fruit of Life"?

If so, I'm not convinced she's either "evil" or that she purposefully brought about the first impact (Which was when the Black Moon landed on Earth, right?).

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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:29 pm

Perhaps the Black Moon has some kind of life support system or power generator? I mean, how else do you explain Lilith being able to survive for millions of years without a Super Solenoid, or Rei and Kaworu being able to externalize their ATF? That energy has to come from somewhere.


Lilith will probably live forever regardless, given what she's made out of. PWM doesn't seem to deteriorate like normal flesh does. She's also demonstrated quantum superpowers, so maybe she's fueled by zero-point energy or something.

The AT Field doesn't take energy. It's a materialization of the soul and is thus basically magic or something, lol.

The information from NGE2 radically alters one's perception of the series. So humans and angels are refugees from a Krypton-wannabe? Lilith is evil and engineered the 1st impact in order to try becoming a god?


It's more like Star Craft. The First Ancestral Race are the Xel'Naga, and instead of Protoss and Zerg we got Angels and Lilin.

Lilith isn't evil. Her desire for the Fruit of Life is probably part of some Mama Bear craziness. "Those fucks wanna screw with my kids? I'll show them. Oh yes, I'll protect my babies...heheheheheohohohohohHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:09 pm

I understood Lilith's conversing with Rei as being her protective of her children and/or wanting to properly claim Earth for herself; basically giving Adam the boot in some form. I remember somehow making a logic leap of "maybe Lilith wants Third Impact to occur and wipe out Adam-based life" but that's probably just me assuming based on Lilith's wanting the Fruit of Life/S2 Engine.

Maybe Rei and Kaworu's Scenarios should be given priority with translating... Assuming me and/or Reichu could work on it.

But uh, besides that, the Classified Information in Eva2 is mainly in-depth information for people who want to know it. Supposedly everything Gainax wanted to reveal is already there in the show: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=368618#368618

I recall having a PM exchange about the above link with symbv at some point, but I cleaned out my PM box a few months back without double-checking everything first. :facepalm:
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Postby Yue » Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:58 am

View Original PostZenoseiya wrote:Hey, what if the FAR were like the Scrin? Huh? Huh?

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:It's more like Star Craft. The First Ancestral Race are the Xel'Naga, and instead of Protoss and Zerg we got Angels and Lilin.


If we're having that discussion, I'd say they're closer to the titans from World of Warcraft. Particularly the part where bilogical/spiritual stuff is disguised with technobabble. :D What would that make the Old Gods, I wonder...? Or in Aura's metaphor, the-OF COURSE! The Hybrids that Mengsk creates are the same as combining fruits! But I digress.

I assumed that the First Ancestral Race was destroyed by their sun going nova or maybe their system colliding with another. Like Yui says, "Even after the Earth, Moon and Sun are lost..."? They say their planet was lost, not necessarily their ability to live on. it'd also be a nice bit of irony if they had the chance to float in space like Yui chose to, but elected to do the seven seeds thing instead.

Furthermore, I'm conflicted about suggesting that Lilith is some cackling supervillain or an insane mama bear. Is there anything to suggest that except one line she says in Rei's third impact scenario?
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:00 pm

I have to say though, Lilith being maniacally insane explains a lot as far as GNR is concerned.
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Postby Yue » Sun Jul 17, 2011 3:21 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:I have to say though, Lilith being maniacally insane explains a lot as far as GNR is concerned.


I disagree. That was already explained pretty clearly: Rei herself was beyond suicidal, and she put Instrumentality in Shinji's hands and he made a xenocidal wish. What's left to explain?
Last edited by Yue on Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby CJD » Sun Jul 17, 2011 4:19 pm

View Original PostAuraTwilight wrote:I have to say though, Lilith being maniacally insane explains a lot as far as GNR is concerned.


Really? I guess it explains the weirder parts of it (noises and such), but were you referring to something else?

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 20, 2011 10:20 pm

View Original PostYue wrote:I assumed that the First Ancestral Race was destroyed by their sun going nova or maybe their system colliding with another.

Either of those scenarios could have been what eventually happened to their world, but the FAR probably had the Seeds wipe them out in an Impact beforehand. (Gather their souls into the seven Moons, and all.)

Furthermore, I'm conflicted about suggesting that Lilith is some cackling supervillain or an insane mama bear. Is there anything to suggest that except one line she says in Rei's third impact scenario?

Lilith brings it up at least twice. But I've been preoccupied and haven't translated all of the relevant stuff yet.

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Postby Gecko state » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:35 pm

Two taste the fruit of Eden is a curse. It`s hard going back to reality once you know the truth about being trapped in what you thought was real and hating that you can`t get out of all the suffering and pain. But there are the ones who transcend us and become one with the entity and sleeping in the womb of the universe ready to save the ones who are trapped within there own body and mind they must choose a tangible form or freedom you can not have both. Knowing who you truly are is a great price one that you must give up your own self image to obtain.


Get it by your own hands.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:55 pm

.....someone care to translate that word salad?
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Postby Alaska Slim » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:58 pm

View Original PostGecko state wrote:But there are the ones who transcend us and become one with the entity and sleeping in the womb of the universe ready to save the ones who are trapped within there own body and mind they must choose a tangible form or freedom you can not have both.

What is a freaky cult?

What is posting while delirious/stoned?

What is "I got way too into The Matrix back in the day and only have this trench coat to show for it"?

Reichu wrote:(Gather their souls into the seven Moons, and all.

Please remind me, when does that show up again?
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Postby Sgt. Griff » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:19 am

Yes yes all this theorizing is all very well. What we need is to stop this arguing and think in clear cut processes.

Let's focus on Lilith's egg. Veered off course. Obviously some sort of navigation system (be it active or something like slinging between gravitational fields) would be there, but nothing that would be required is beyond what humands can engineer, all that would be required is a large enough hurl to throw the egg out into space, followed by the slinging around through various gravitational firelds, assuming that normally the eggs would get fully caught in the gravitational field and gradually drift closer over a few thousand years, before considerably more calmly than Lilith's first impact, touching down onto land..Navigation-Check... Survival of Lilith- Can we assume the lance of Longinus is in fact a device to store Lilith (or any seed) until they reach their destination, by which point the lance would be destroyed (two theories knocked out in one). Thus we can assume Adam's egg was effective as he did not "activate", and when he did he tried to destroy the world.

Ooh, a new theory, was Adam "defective" and Lilith possibly his replacement, but by human means he was awakened in his defective state.

Back OT

Thrust- Um... Gravity? Something that humans have done in the past, mainly for autonomous probes, but Apollo 13 had to manoeuvre in such a way to return to Earth.

So to that new theory.

Could we consider Adam's defective state as a viral infection, and when Lilith is "infected" by Rei, the human catalyst, and so when Lilith was "infected" it caused the same scenario as Adam, through a "brainwash' of GNR. (remember the black eyes?)

So there you have it...

What was I saying again?

Just needed to get some of that out of my system. Actually contribute to this once in a while.
I'm writing music or studying law. It's all very unclear at this point.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:31 pm

Can we assume the lance of Longinus is in fact a device to store Lilith (or any seed) until they reach their destination, by which point the lance would be destroyed (two theories knocked out in one). Thus we can assume Adam's egg was effective as he did not "activate", and when he did he tried to destroy the world.


No, we can't, because that is emphatically not what the Lance of Longinus does. It's a device with it's 'own will' (lol) that keeps the Seeds from deviating from their mission.

Ooh, a new theory, was Adam "defective" and Lilith possibly his replacement, but by human means he was awakened in his defective state.


When Lilith landed on the planet, her Lance was destroyed, so to take care of the problem, Adam's Lance put him into stasis so that their children wouldn't complete for the planet. There's nothing wrong with Adam, and technically Lilith is the Seed that isn't supposed to be here.


Could we consider Adam's defective state as a viral infection, and when Lilith is "infected" by Rei, the human catalyst, and so when Lilith was "infected" it caused the same scenario as Adam, through a "brainwash' of GNR. (remember the black eyes?)


There is no 'defectiveness.'
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Postby Sgt. Griff » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:09 pm

^Poo, combatting theories with theories is how the crusades started.

EDIT: I agree sorry, what I wrote was null rap looking back on it.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Feb 19, 2012 4:03 pm

Er, the things I said were from the Confidential Information; none of my post was speculation.
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Postby XX » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:25 am

An attempt to make a simple and humorous visual explanation on much of the important lore from Neon Genesis Evangelion, seen on this very same thread. Made by SORAYUNI (ソラユニ or ソラユニ さん) using MikuMikuDance:

エヴァンゲリオンがさらにわかる動画:旧 ‐ ニコニコ動画(原宿)
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm18769211

エヴァンゲリオンがさらにわかる動画:旧 - YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fduVKdHRP0o

It would be useful for many... if someone shows interest in translating it, of course!

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Postby Ceimoa Nan » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:48 am

Great video! The only part I really questioned was when they showed the Angels (or their embryos) being released during the White Moon's landing (Zeroth Impact?) rather than during Second Impact. From what this site's wiki tells me, there's no definitive answer.

It's somewhat surprising to me, and relieving, to see that the Japanese fanbase approaches these questions so similarly to how we do. I had this suspicion that they understood the show very differently than we did, that there's some treasure trove of untranslated information we're barely aware of. And that video's so recent, too.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:55 am

Actually I opened a thread about this video in the fandom section some days ago, I don't know if it exactly fits in this thread as well, even though it's indeed quite possible that it used the CI as reference.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:40 pm

Finally got to watch this, great video! The Sailormoon nod was cute (the Black Moon deal too). I'm assuming a lot of the information was from Eva2's Classified Information. I tried to ask around so I'll post here if I get any replies. (The audio of Gendo and Rei talking was from Eva2 at least. Same with Shinji, Asuka, and Rei at the end.)

I agree it is somewhat surprising to see Japanese fans have the same thinking as us, I was also under the impression they had different theories or access to different information that we don't.

I have a basic understanding of Japanese and the general idea of what the video's referring to, but certainly not enough to translate it. Hopefully somebody will at some point!
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Postby riffraff11235 » Sun Sep 16, 2012 5:19 pm

View Original PostSailor Star Dust wrote:I have a basic understanding of Japanese and the general idea of what the video's referring to, but certainly not enough to translate it. Hopefully somebody will at some point!


Same here, both on the Japanese knowledge and the hopes for a translation. The explosive DBZ-style fusion dance between Sachiel and Adam was especially entertaining! I also liked how the animator showed a concept of what Eva-01 looked like during the Contact Experiment with Yui.[/spoiler]
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