The extent of Kaworu's knowledge

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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The extent of Kaworu's knowledge [Spoilers!]

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Postby chaosakita » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:12 am

Like always, Kaworu seems to be super-informed. Although we have no context for how he got all of this information (maybe ~omniscient~), he does seem to know a lot of it.

Let's look at all the dialogue he has said in the series:

First of all, from the end of 1.0, he knows about Shinji while he was already on the moon.

The third again, huh? You never change, do you?


He did say the word "again" here, but it could mean "also" too.

But if you know that something doesn't change, you know how it was like before.

Later, he also refers to Shinji using the title "-kun" and the pronoun "kimi", both of which imply familiarity. Apparently, it's rude to use the latter with strangers. Whether this is saying something or just for effect, I like it.

I'm pleased to meet you... Father.


Despite wild theories to the contrary, he's probably just calling Gendou that because he's Shinji's father. Again, he is implying familiarity, even though that's quite contradictory with "I'm pleased to meet you." Either way, he knows this, although who informed him is still unknown.

Finally, here's the greatest extent of Kaworu's dialogue so far!

Come now, the promised time has come, Ikari Shinji-kun.


So he was informed of some "time." (Or maybe he just knew by himself...) But by who? And what exactly is it?

If he was working with SEELE as implied on being on their base in the moon scene, this would be going against their wishes. Or maybe they just want Instrumentality on better terms...

This time, I'll be sure to bring you happiness.


I think this is the most key piece of dialogue he has.

Even though I don't necessarily believe in the sequel theory, this says that if there's a "this time", there's a "that time" too. What could it be?

Also, it says that before in "that time", Kaworu did not bring Shinji happiness. Is this a implication that he knew what happened in Ep 24?

So, even though he has had so few lines, Kaworu has revealed quite a lot. What do you guys make of what he knows? Presumably, he will serve about the same function as in Ep 24, but do you guys think he will reveal more information on things this time?

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Re: The extent of Kaworu's knowledge [Spoilers!]

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Postby SaltyJoe » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:28 am

chaosakita wrote:Despite wild theories to the contrary, he's probably just calling Gendou that because he's Shinji's father.

But isn't supposing that Kaworu knows that Gendo is Shinji's father a wild theory itself?Man, that's some sentence...

If he was working with SEELE as implied on being on their base in the moon scene, this would be going against their wishes. Or maybe they just want Instrumentality on better terms...

I think you gave the best, as of yet available answer to your own question here: Seele are the ones with the plan, the gooks with the scroll, so it is probable that they let old Tabby-kun in on their plans. And who knows how those plans involve Shinji?

Presumably, he will serve about the same function as in Ep 24, but do you guys think he will reveal more information on things this time?

Probably yeah. Though i have to wonder how his role will play out this time around. I just can't see him as being the sole comforting hand to reach out to Shinji on his sea of angst because.. well, things are just that different now. So while he probably still be Seele's mole, his relationship with Shinji will be drastically different, methinks (i hope they don't pull a total EMK on us, though).
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Postby EvaCub » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:15 am

I think Kaworu knows Everything, in fact maybe he's the one pulling SEELE's strings... that would be neat
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Postby chee » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:58 am

He knows what you look like naked.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:09 pm

It's really hard to say how Kaworu knows Shinji at this point: It could be due to:

1) Knowledge of the original series (whether or not it's sequel theory, nobody really knows yet)

2) Because Seele let Kaworu in on their plans.

3) Or Kaworu knows of Shinji from some past event (as children perhaps?) OR even due to original series knowledge (as stated in 1, whether or not it's some past memory, no idea) OR just some other event that hasn't been brought up yet.

Either way, it wouldn't surprise if whether or not Seele is using Kaworu that he gets back at them in his own way (kinda similar to Rei and Gendo in the series, although Kaworu was ironically doing just what Seele wanted with him dying).

At any rate, yeah Kaworu's relationship with Shinji is bond to be different I'm sure, I just hope he won't be EMK from the manga and at the very least, a hybrid of manga and anime Kaworu similar to how Rebuild Shinji is a hybrid of his manga and anime counterparts as well.

And with what happened at the end of 2.0, my guess is Kaworu speared Eva-01 because HE wants to bring 3rd Impact about for Shinji's sake instead of allowing Yui or Lilith/Rei to do that (see also, all his rambling about making Shinji happy). Whether or not it'd be for purely benevolent reasons (Kaworu loving Shinji) or using Shinji in some manner (for instance, Adam bringing back her children by means of 3I in the end), who knows.
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Re: The extent of Kaworu's knowledge [Spoilers!]

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Postby chaosakita » Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:43 pm

SaltyJoe wrote:But isn't supposing that Kaworu knows that Gendo is Shinji's father a wild theory itself?Man, that's some sentence...


According to the other posters on the forum, people in Japan commonly call their friends' fathers that. I think that acknowledging Gendou is Shinji's father is the simplest explanation for his line rather than insisting that Gendou and Kaworu are somehow related or something.
Last edited by chaosakita on Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:17 pm

We know absolutely nothing about the backstory yet. For all we know, Shinji and Kaworu have met before in the Rebuild universe.

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Postby Master Raven » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:33 pm

Has anyone thought of the possibility that the "third again..." line could be a reference to a previous attempt at unleashing the third impact?

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Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:41 pm

The context of the surrounding line doesn't allow for that, the Third Impact isn't something you can talk to.

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Postby Lucretius » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:52 pm

Unless Kaworu was launched onto the moon after building sandcastles with Shinji as a kid, the sequel idea is starting to look mighty plausible.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby chaosakita » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:58 pm

If Kaworu were to have met with Shinji, I wonder how it might have changed him in the past...

Although I would much rather prefer it that Shinji isn't just this way because of meeting a special someone.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:30 am

Lucretius wrote:Unless Kaworu was launched onto the moon after building sandcastles with Shinji as a kid, the sequel idea is starting to look mighty plausible.


SPOILER: Show
Gendo visits the moon casually, so it's not like it's apparently any big deal in Rebuild.

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Postby esselfortium » Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:43 am

AuraTwilight wrote:
Lucretius wrote:Unless Kaworu was launched onto the moon after building sandcastles with Shinji as a kid, the sequel idea is starting to look mighty plausible.


SPOILER: Show
Gendo visits the moon casually, so it's not like it's apparently any big deal in Rebuild.

SPOILER: Show
Gendo does everything casually. ;)

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Postby Master Raven » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:00 am

AuraTwilight wrote:The context of the surrounding line doesn't allow for that, the Third Impact isn't something you can talk to.


I have a habit of interpreting things in ways that I don't actually expect.

>_>

I know it's unlikely but sometimes I like wild speculation.

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Postby Master Raven » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:01 am

Master Raven wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:The context of the surrounding line doesn't allow for that, the Third Impact isn't something you can talk to.


I have a habit of reading between the lines a bit too much.

>_>

I know it's unlikely but sometimes I like wild speculation.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:04 am

Again, you can't talk to a temporal event. "The Third", whatever it was, was being personified by Kaworu, and 2.0 seems to confirm he was talking about Shinji.

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Postby Master Raven » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:07 am

I know.

and wtf @ my accidental double post

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Postby Fazmotron » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:23 am

Looks like you hit quote instead of edit.

Also, Kaworu actually says Shinji's name, so he is definitely referring to him.
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Postby EdZ » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:37 am

My running theory was that he was referring to the third angel, given he was looking at Probably Lilith at that point. Remember that sentences in Japanese can change subject at the drop of a hat, so "The third again, you never change do you?" and "My heart desires to see you, Ikari Shinji" do not necessarily refer to the same person/object.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:01 pm

Mari killed the Third Angel. It's not Lilith.


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