Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILERS]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

Gamer_2k4
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 482
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Gender: Male

Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILERS]

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gamer_2k4 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:30 am

After watching the camrip of Rebuild 2, I decided to go back to the series to see how the original battle against Sahaquiel compared.

I was shocked.

I had seen nothing but Rebuild and the manga for the longest time, and as a result, the series looked ridiculously primative. What I had once considered good art (not good animation, mind you, because as a rule, anime is pretty low in terms of animation quality) now seemed very sparse and cartoony. All the colors seemed off, the lines were too thick, and there just wasn't any detail at all.

Then I went back to Rebuild and was amazed all over again. The CGI and animation that I had grown accustomed to now looked absolutely breathtaking when compared to its predecessor. Detail abounded, and I found I didn't really miss things like Jet Alone and other parts that ended up getting cut. In fact, after watching Rebuild, those parts seem extraneous to the point of being filler material. In terms of audio, the music is so much better in Rebuild, and the Japanese voices are significantly better than the English ones I was used to.

In short, I really don't see much reason to watch the original series again, since everything seems so much better in Rebuild. Anyone else feel the same way?
Last edited by Gamer_2k4 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gamer_2k4

SaltyJoe
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 1719
Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SaltyJoe » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:41 am

No, because the original series has it's own place, and Rebuild will have it's own place. The "first experience"-value and the memories that are tied to the original NGE will always assure it a special place in my heart.

I also rewatched some scenes/episodes from the original, and the "crappy" artwork and "lame" music actually seemed endearingly nostalgic in retrospect.

These are different animals: they tell different stories with different methods, with an obvious technological gap between them that stems from a fifteen year difference regarding the time of their making and a higher budget.

I like Rebuild so far, but it didn't ruin the original series for me.


Taekmkm
Shamshel
Shamshel
Posts: 286
Joined: May 22, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Taekmkm » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:52 am

Looking back at Rei after watching Rebuild made me go "Ughwah?" for a moment.
We watched 'The Lion King' in my math class once. After it was over, the teacher passed out worksheets that said: "If the circle of life had a diamter of 46 inches..."

SaltyJoe
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 1719
Joined: Apr 23, 2009
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby SaltyJoe » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:56 am

Taekmkm wrote:Looking back at Rei after watching Rebuild made me go "Ughwah?" for a moment.


Meaning? Do you find the original version bland, or the new too "in your face"?

Shinji-kun
Banned
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 27, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinji-kun » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:00 am

I think there was no need for Rebuild, except profit. The original series and EoE were sufficient.

The Goose
Matarael
Matarael
Posts: 570
Joined: Dec 03, 2006
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby The Goose » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:16 am

Isn't it too early to tell if Rebuild has ruined the original series since its not over yet?

schismatics
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1861
Joined: May 11, 2009
Location: Killinois
Gender: Male

Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby schismatics » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:18 am

Gamer_2k4 wrote: What I had once considered good art (not good animation, mind you, because as a rule, anime is pretty low in terms of animation quality) now seemed very sparse and cartoony. All the colors seemed off, the lines were too thick, and there just wasn't any detail at all.


I kinda feel like this...but I still love the original series...its what I originally watched and I have a strong attachment to it.

(By the way you might want to mark whether or not this thread has spoilers...sorry if I'm backseat modding!!!)

Rommel
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Posts: 690
Joined: Jan 02, 2007
Location: Asuka's pants
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rommel » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:41 am

Gamer_2k4 wrote: What I had once considered good art (not good animation, mind you, because as a rule, anime is pretty low in terms of animation quality) now seemed very sparse and cartoony. All the colors seemed off, the lines were too thick, and there just wasn't any detail at all.


The two can't really be compared. It's like saying the new Star Wars trilogy is better than the old one because the special effects are better and the lightsaber fights flashier. Those things it might be, but it doesn't replace the original.

Great movies, series, art, whatever are not dated by their technology.

wonderluster
Clockiel
Clockiel
User avatar
Posts: 440
Joined: Jun 15, 2009
Location: Belleville, Ontario murder capital.
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby wonderluster » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:43 am

The Series will always fill me full of happy cause of when Shinji was all like "LETS MOVE OUT" in the Saha mission, good times.
On the path to Universal Understanding.

Gamer_2k4
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 482
Joined: Jun 20, 2008
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Gender: Male

Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gamer_2k4 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:44 am

SaltyJoe wrote:No, because the original series has its own place, and Rebuild will have its own place. The "first experience"-value and the memories that are tied to the original NGE will always assure it a special place in my heart.

Makes sense. For me, though, I like NGE more in concept than execution. I don't really like most of the characters, for example, but the thing is, that's pretty much exactly what Anno wanted. I love the idea that the mechas are actually living creatures. I also think the show does a fantastic job in terms of character depth and plot. However, at the end of the day, I learn more about those things by browsing this forum than by actually watching the show. What's left? Well, for me it's fresh plotlines and remastered media. Rebuild provides those things.

The Goose wrote:Isn't it too early to tell if Rebuild has ruined the original series since its not over yet?

Well, if you read my original post, I comment on quite a bit more than the plot. My point was actually more that the plot differences are irrelevant; the technical differences are so drastic that plot issues kind of fade into the background (for me, anyway).

schismatics wrote:(By the way you might want to mark whether or not this thread has spoilers...sorry if I'm backseat modding!!!)

Good call. Fixed.

Rommel wrote:The two can't really be compared. It's like saying the new Star Wars trilogy is better than the old one because the special effects are better and the lightsaber fights flashier. Those things it might be, but it doesn't replace the original.

I know the point you're trying to make, but I'm going to have to nitpick it a little. Remember Star Wars: Special Edition? It was released in the late 90s, I think, and they cleaned up the quality, added some additional scenes, some CGI, etc. I would watch that over the original any day, but compared to Episodes I-III, the special edition is still the "original."

At the same time, there's a pretty substantial difference between NGE and SW in terms of "sequel" improvements. With NGE, Rebuild feels more "real" because the CGI complements the improved art, making it a lot more realistic. With SW, the CGI in the prequels is excessive, and the result of that is acting hindered by having to deal with green screens and invisible characters. For that reason, the original trilogy seems more "real" because the acting is better and the special effects are less flashy and more down-to-earth. You end up focusing on the plot instead of the "great effects."

In short, it's a different set of changes between NGE and SW, so it's harder to compare the two.
Gamer_2k4

JimmyWolk
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 38
Posts: 604
Joined: Jun 06, 2008
Location: here
Contact:

Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you?

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby JimmyWolk » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:07 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:and the Japanese voices are significantly better than the English ones I was used to.
Cause... the series doesn't have Japanese voices...?

Not really much spoilers, but better safe than sorry:
SPOILER: Show
Sure, Rebuild looks nicer (big surprise given the technical, money and time advantage), but that's hardly a deal breaker to me. (Hey, I'm a Nintendo fanboy, graphics don't matter ;P)
In terms of the action, Rebuild's "bigger/more is better" approach actually works against it for me. 1.0 had plenty of over-the-top moments already and it only got worse in 2.0.

Story/characterization-wise - series wins easily, because it's "wasting" time even on minor things/characters. That the JA was mostly filler in terms of the overall story hardly needed Rebuild to notice, but on the opposite the pacing of the movies (1.0/1 admittedly more than 2.0) is horribly off, squeezing way too much in roughly the first hour.

Most importantly though: personal feel. Granted, Rebuild is at a disadvantage here; cause 1) 1.0 had too much of the "seen already" feel (telling the same story is one thing, but by merely redrawing the same shots for the most part?), 2) at least without proper translation, 2.0 seeming mostly like a mere comedy/action/fanservice-fest and in b4 "series was same at that time" 3) what elevated the series above the average were Ep16+ and especially the ending(s), where Rebuild just stepped into. And it definitely didn't help that they've been messing so much with my favorite chara. :P


the special edition is still the "original."
Yeah, every SW fan would agree, cause the special addition didn't messed up any story/character-tidbit at all, huh? *coughHanshotfirstcough*

Otakon 08 Ikari
Donor
Donor
User avatar
Posts: 2342
Joined: Aug 11, 2008
Location: Pittsburgh PA

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:19 pm

I can not say that it ruined anything for me. Its simply another story to be told in the Evangelion world.
Dr. Trans Old Fashioned Peppermint Dickables

http://pshbling.deviantart.com/gallery/ Go there for Eva cosplay.

Shinji-kun
Banned
Posts: 213
Joined: Jul 27, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinji-kun » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:29 pm

I just like the series better. I liked the cell animation and the subtle, quiet moments you won't find in Rebuild.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
User avatar
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:01 pm

The Goose wrote:Isn't it too early to tell if Rebuild has ruined the original series [for somebody] since its not over yet?

^ This.

I can watch old, cobwebby stuff. I'm accommodated to NGE's limitations and its oft-awkward "where has the budget gone?" mid-90s animation. The familiar material in Rebuild is more like a bonus than anything else.

And also this:

Otakon 08 Ikari wrote:I can not say that it ruined anything for me. It's simply another story to be told in the Evangelion world.


Gamer_2k4 wrote:Well, for me it's fresh plotlines and remastered media. Rebuild provides those things.

In due time, its plotlines will have been hacked apart and the veterans will know the scripts by heart, and even its shiny new look will collect dust. Then, I suppose, like everything else, all pleasures are transient (just some more so than others).
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」

LiLi
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1907
Joined: Jun 20, 2009
Location: Osaka-fu
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby LiLi » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:11 pm

I sorta know what you mean, regarding the visuals - going back to NGE (the TV series - I still find the theatrical feature impressive) after watching RoE 1 I had a bit of a shock, realizing just how stunningly dfferent the visuals were and how different the "matching" scenes looked...

Then again, in a sense perhaps RoE 2 'ruined' RoE 1 for me, animation-wise... I think RoE 2's 'animation' has a more distinctive feel to it somehow...

I don't think NGE's "vintage" look depends solely on its being older material - there are even older (and longer) series (20 - 30 years old) the visuals of which still stun me to this day. Then again, I don't consider NGE as being particularly old compared to a lot of the anime I've been exposed to... Maybe the budget issues really hit hard, maybe the staff being relatively young at the time was also an issue... maybe some things just look better if done in CGI and, most of all, while having time to develop them instead of chasing a weekly airing schedule...

This said, I wouldn't say Rebuild "ruined" NGE for me - animation aside, the issues I had with NGE and that are being dealt with (partially, at least) in Rebuild have been there all along, and I've been aware of them all along, hoping against all hope for some sequel/remake to take care of them.

So maybe Rebuild will surpass NGE for me eventually - it's too early to say for sure.

But I'm still be able to go back to NGE and enjoy it for all the things it's done differently, for its message, with the added bonus I'm less frustrated with its shortcomings due to RoE existing as well (had Rebuild been a simple shot-for-shot re-hash of NGE with shinier animation, things might have been different). This is akin to the way I feel about ep. 26 and 26' - neither of them might be completely perfect for me, but they complement each other nicely and I enjoy watching both, albeit for completely different reasons...
"People need more stfu in their diets." (NemZ)
"It was [email protected] at first sight." [LiLi on Romance, II]

AVATAR - CUPCAKE CAT, SHOPPED BY NemZ

Ingrod
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 21
Joined: Jun 28, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ingrod » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:46 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:What I had once considered good art (not good animation, mind you, because as a rule, anime is pretty low in terms of animation quality)


Anime have his own techniques and do a good profit of limitations. Good animation not necessarily mean have a million of things moving in the screen. Anime can tell perfctly a history with few FPS and that have some merit.

Shinji-kun wrote:I think there was no need for Rebuild, except profit. The original series and EoE were sufficient.


"Profit" is a a very easy and plain explanation for Rebuild. With Eva they can have profit without do extensive changues, but instead they do then, why? Is not only redraw all and have CGI upgraded battles with best music, they accepted the risk for do plot changues, new scenes, a characters variations. Why? Only profit, I doubt.

For me is that NGE was great, but not a perfect series and really have many flaws, because that I understand Anno perfectly when he have now the need to do Rebuild.

But Rebuild is not here for replace NGE, and for that can't ruin anything.
Asuka Langley Soryu fan

Orphan Of Darkness
Israfel
Israfel
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 452
Joined: Jun 12, 2009
Location: Here now!
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Orphan Of Darkness » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:42 pm

How could Rebuild 'ruin' the original series? I know the entire world (seemingly) is all about "newer and prettier = BETTER OMG!!11" but come on have some sense, especially regarding the film/anime industry.
For Rebuild to 'ruin' the original NGE for me, it would either have to be a much more faithful remake and somehow tell the same story even more masterfully. However, it's fairly obvious at this point Rebuild is almost an entirely different story from the series.
It takes a lot more than pretty CG and action scenes to define a film and especially a story and that's why I'm worried about the series making Rebuild look like shit. Not the other way around.
The Ramiel battle in Rebuild might have floored me, but it wont continue to captivate me like the original story does after a few more viewings. It's very possible Rebuild and its conclusion will be so awesome the original series pales in comparison, but it won't ever displace the series/EoE as a work of art.
EvanGelion:GLIA @A fanfiction project in progress. ~Updated-Mar 15th/2011~ |DeviantArt

-
"Make good use of this money, Rei. I

thefeelingofikarishinji
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 29
Joined: Apr 29, 2008
Location: Mountain...Heavy Mountain

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby thefeelingofikarishinji » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:25 pm

While I haven't seen (or read) 2.0 yet, I know that when I think of eva scenes like Rei and Shinji entering one another's eva's, and Shinji and Asuka wearing identical outfits to synchronize their movements will always have a special place for me, along with other things that might not be in the films.
It's difficult to live with people if you're fatuous; you'll understand that once you discover that you're ruined.

Joe_Mo
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 26
Joined: Jul 20, 2009
Location: Arizona

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joe_Mo » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:33 pm

I dont think its ruining anything. I still believe that this is all in Shinji's mind after the end of EoE.

EvaCub
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 28
Posts: 672
Joined: Sep 08, 2007
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby EvaCub » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:23 am

agree with Gosse
another case of "lets wait until rebuild is done"
My Anime List
Apjak:"Basically, to make an A.T. field gun, you'd have to make a gun that fires Evangelions. Not a very efficient use.
SailorStarDust:"No, everything has SOME meaning to it in Eva!"
Reichu on Sequel Theory:lights bandwagon on fire again:


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests