Vatican Treaty

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Vatican Treaty [SPOILERS]

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Postby UltraBlackPilot » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:36 am

Originally titled (gratuitous spoiler to some) "The treaty that says 3 Evas a country." Title changed in anticipation of complaints. (Changed again by Reichu to be more specific; "Vatican Treaty" isn't a spoiler since the term was released on the movie poster.)

I'm confused when was that signed I don't remember it in the series. Why was it made if only 3 countries even had Evangelions.

Note on edit: anticipation?
Last edited by UltraBlackPilot on Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:40 am

The Vatican Treaty is made up new for the movie, like pretty much everything in 2.0
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Re: The treaty that says 3 Evas a country.

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Postby I Accidentally Dracula » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:53 am

UltraBlackPilot wrote:Why was it made if only 3 countries even had Evangelions.

Or why it wasn't even hinted to in the first movie. Or why nobody sees an inherent flaw in the proposal when, regardless of separate superpowers, the truth of the matter is that all accepted Evas are ultimately built to fight Angels in Japan.

Its sole purpose is to get Asuka out of EVA-02 and make room for Mari, basically. It doesn't really have a place in the Making The Slightest Lick of Sense department. Yeah, there's the whole "SEELE / Gendou have deeper plans mwuahahaha" aspect of it, but that's not an excuse for the characters that aren't SEELE / Gendou to not notice an obvious conflict of interest and stay blind to manipulation.
Last edited by I Accidentally Dracula on Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby scarmullet » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:06 am

To tell the truth, such a law would make sense. It could prevent one nation from getting enough EVAs to effortlessly conquering its neighbors.
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Postby I Accidentally Dracula » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:09 am

scarmullet wrote:To tell the truth, such a law would make sense. It could prevent one nation from getting enough EVAs to effortlessly conquering its neighbors.

Nuclear limitation treaties.

Those kind of go out the window when you're defending yourself against an extremely hostile alien race that can only be harmed by nuclear warheads, though.

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Postby Ornette » Wed Jul 15, 2009 3:33 am

I Accidentally Dracula wrote:
scarmullet wrote:To tell the truth, such a law would make sense. It could prevent one nation from getting enough EVAs to effortlessly conquering its neighbors.

Nuclear limitation treaties.

Those kind of go out the window when you're defending yourself against an extremely hostile alien race that can only be harmed by nuclear warheads, though.

Did they know only 1 place was going to be attacked when they decided to build Evas and sign that treaty? There was already an Angel battle outside of Japan.

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Postby Electric Sachiel » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:37 am

Ornette wrote:Did they know only 1 place was going to be attacked when they decided to build Evas and sign that treaty? There was already an Angel battle outside of Japan.



Indeed. I wonder if it'll be the last. And anyways what was the angel that Mari fights after anyways? Was it after that "key thing" that Kaji had in his possession or something?

Similar to Adam in the NGE story?

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Postby JimmyWolk » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:08 am

I don't quite see how a lack of a limitation treaty would mean only Japan can round up EVAs. It's not like NERV Japan said "gimme all your EVA!" (03 (at least in the series) was sent there because the US didn't want it anymore after the 04 incident) so that they had to sign such thing.
Even if Japan has more than 3, other countries still could have their own in case Angels appear there.

Not that I don't agree that such treaty would make sense in RL-politics, but in terms of the movie, suddenly coming out of nowhere and only resulting in forcing the plot in a certain direction, it just feels like cheating a reason to put 02 off the roster.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Jul 15, 2009 5:59 am

It does seem entirely silly, even from a practical standpoint. If an eva had to be put in storage as a spare, why not the untested one? I mean, we already knew that Gendo apparently doesn't have much of a grasp on strategy, but come on...

Stupid plot device is stupid.
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Postby Ornette » Wed Jul 15, 2009 6:16 am

Does someone have a transcript of that scene with Misato and Asuka talking while Eva-02 was being put away? That conversation was pretty long and I was barely able to catch any of it, even after the second time watching it.

Found it:
2号機のコアが取り外され、クレーンで吊り上げられていく。


拘束具を宛がわれ、封印される2号機。


十字架のように貼り付けられ、それをつけたクレーンが降下していく。


床が4つに割れ、開いていく封印扉。


それを眼前にするアスカとリツコとマヤ。


アスカ 何で私の2号機が封印されちゃうのよ!


リツコ バチカン条約よ。知ってるでしょ。3号機との引き換え条件なの


アスカ 修理中の0号機にすればいいじゃない!


リツコ 2号機のパスは今でもユーロが保有しているの、私たちにはどうにもできないのよ。現在はパイロットも白紙。ユーロから再通知があるまでは、おとなしくしてなさい


アスカ 私以外誰にも乗れないのに…


リツコ エヴァは実戦兵器よ。全てにバックアップを用意しているわ。操縦者も含めてね


アスカ そんな…私の世界で唯一の居場所なのに


Does that say that the core of Eva-02 has been removed? Apparently, the Euros are the ones who decided to put Eva-02 in storage or something.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:34 am

Removed and being lifted up by crane. Well, there's a little something for the piloting thread...
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:18 am

:ehh: They can just take an S2 Organ out of the Eva's? That confuses me cause we all know that they are not met to even have them yet.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:24 am

Otakon 08 Ikari wrote::ehh: They can just take an S2 Organ out of the Eva's? That confuses me cause we all know that they are not met to even have them yet.

Core =/= S2 Engine.
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Postby master_lloyd » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:25 am

I don't think the core and the S2 organ are the same thing.

http://wiki.evageeks.org/S%C2%B2_Engine

Besides, S2's have yet to make a Rebuild appearance.

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Postby I Accidentally Dracula » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:38 am

Did they know only 1 place was going to be attacked when they decided to build Evas and sign that treaty?

The fact that all primary Eva R&D took place in Japan?

And how America basically had to beg for rights to build 03 and 04 after it became the cool thing to do?

And ... wherever the hell Mari is from not being given sufficient data to even build a complete Eva?

It certainly implies that NERV had a general idea of some sort. There's an obvious (and justified) bias towards where the Angels are actually attacking.


Electric Sachiel wrote:And anyways what was the angel that Mari fights after anyways?

The promotional booklet for 2.0 says it was escaping captivity. i.e.: It probably didn't get there on its own.
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:11 am

I'm sorry, I read that wrong. They took out the Core of Eva 02 and placed it within Eva 03. I find this odd since I thought that would be the body for the soul within Eva 02. Once within, I did not know they could be placed some where else.
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Postby Axell » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:03 pm

NemZ wrote:It does seem entirely silly, even from a practical standpoint. If an eva had to be put in storage as a spare, why not the untested one? I mean, we already knew that Gendo apparently doesn't have much of a grasp on strategy, but come on...

Stupid plot device is stupid.


better yet, why not decommission 00, the most out of date. It also gets Rei off the battlefield

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Postby I Accidentally Dracula » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:48 pm

JimmyWolk wrote:It's not like NERV Japan said "gimme all your EVA!" (03 (at least in the series) was sent there because the US didn't want it anymore after the 04 incident) so that they had to sign such thing.

It should be noted that, in the TV series, America didn't actually *give* Japan EVA-03. There are a combination American and Japanese personnel talking during 03's start-up, which would be easy reason to argue that it's actually a joint operation, if not an American operation simply being conducted on Japanese soil.

If the movie mimics this at all (and it seems that it does, otherwise there's no reason for Japan to be *forced* to activate something they have complete control of), then automatically the limiter treaty shouldn't even apply since Unit 03 would still be American property. It's the same principle as sending your own country's troops as foreign aid to another country at war. The troops aren't considered to literally be part of the foreign country's army.

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Postby Ornette » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:04 pm

It also seems Eva-02 is under European control, but the details of the treaty was talked about earlier (which was why I missed it in the conversation with Asuka while Eva-02 was being put away) and there's probably more context to it then. Someone will have to translate it from the transcript.

日向 僕が言うのも何なんですが、これだけダメージが大きいとエヴァの運用に支障が出てます。バチカン条約、破棄していいんじゃないですか?


ミサト そうよね…条約で各国のエヴァ保有数が3体までと決められてるけど、3体だけだとやりくりきかないもの*


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Postby UltraBlackPilot » Wed Jul 15, 2009 2:34 pm

scarmullet wrote:To tell the truth, such a law would make sense. It could prevent one nation from getting enough EVAs to effortlessly conquering its neighbors.


But it wouldnt matter since EVAs have a limted range of mobiltity, so theres no way Japan could invade a country with an EVA. They could try while using the 5 miuntes of battery time, but it still wouldnt matter because they can't swim eithter.
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