What the heck! So many questions...

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What the heck! So many questions...

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Postby Wayne » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:20 pm

Alright I just finished watching Death & Rebirth + End of Evangelion and now I have like a bajillion questions. I can't think of all of them right now, but here is a couple:

I don't understand what is the difference between Rei going into Adam (on Gendo's hand) and Rei going into Lilith. When Rei doesn't wanna fuse with Gendo, Gendo gets all pissed off but how does Rei fusing with Adam let Gendo see Yui again?

How did Asuka's mom's soul get into Eva-02? I thought she hung herself...

Why are those Pallet Guns so effective? I mean they are the same as the convetional weapons used by the UN but yet the Pallet Gun can kill some angels...

Okay, finally, I would like to say that the English version of Evangelion wasn't that bad as some subtitle-fans say (I watched the show subbed and the movies dubbed). However, I would like to say that some voices jsut didn't fit. First of all, that nerdy NERV guy with glasses and has a crush on Misato - he is voiced by some black dude talking ghetto werd. Second, Rei's voice was a bit too deep. Finally, Asuka is like a bazillion times more annoying.

And I have like 50 more questions to ask. If you want to step up to the challenge we can talk on AIM if you gimme your AIM and I'll ask you so many questions about Eva your head will explode.

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Re: What the heck! So many questions...

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:32 pm

Wayne wrote:I don't understand what is the difference between Rei going into Adam (on Gendo's hand) and Rei going into Lilith. When Rei doesn't wanna fuse with Gendo, Gendo gets all pissed off but how does Rei fusing with Adam let Gendo see Yui again?


Gendo doesn't get pissed off. He goes into a very uncharacteristic panic -- it's the only time in the show we see him so utterly helpless.

Gendo was hoping to initiate the "forbidden union of Adam and Lilith", via the following ingredients:

- Adam's body: In Gendo's hand - check.
- Adam's soul: Salvaged from Kaworu's head back into Adam's body - check.
- Lilith's body: On the cross - check.
- Lilith's soul: Inside Rei - check.

By combining all these elements with himself involved, Gendo hoped to have control over the resultant super-entity -- and possess the power that would let him carry out his plan.

How did Asuka's mom's soul get into Eva-02? I thought she hung herself...


Yeah, AFTER the contact experiment with the Eva in which her soul was sucked out. How her body managed to survive afterwards ... is a mystery, and a matter of discussion many, many threads.

Why are those Pallet Guns so effective? I mean they are the same as the convetional weapons used by the UN but yet the Pallet Gun can kill some angels...


Correction, they kill ONE Angel. Generally speaking, they tend to be quite useless.

Okay, finally, I would like to say that the English version of Evangelion wasn't that bad as some subtitle-fans say (I watched the show subbed and the movies dubbed). However, I would like to say that some voices jsut didn't fit. First of all, that nerdy NERV guy with glasses and has a crush on Misato - he is voiced by some black dude talking ghetto werd. Second, Rei's voice was a bit too deep. Finally, Asuka is like a bazillion times more annoying.


Lesson: Don't listen to dubs.

And I have like 50 more questions to ask. If you want to step up to the challenge we can talk on AIM if you gimme your AIM and I'll ask you so many questions about Eva your head will explode.


Or you can try doing searches here or on the Animenation Forums for threads where your questions are discussed in profane detail.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby DatDude » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:43 pm

Greeting newcomer

three things to keep in mind.

1.) SLow down and rewatch the show looking for the small stuff.

2.) ASk questions like your doing now. Just slow down a bit please one question at a time.

3.) Remember this word and what it means cuz you see it a lot in EVA fan circles.

Apophenia - making connections where none previously existed.

Have fun and learn from this show. Move on when your done, theirs other great stuff out their.
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Postby Wayne » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:55 pm

Sorry man, this is like my first anime that I really watched because I used to not like anime at all because it seemed all fake (the stuff on Cartoon Network). I just have so many questions because the dialogue is so pithy and sometimes hard to follow.

Thanks for the answers Reichu + the advice from DatDude.

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Postby DatDude » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:06 pm

NP Wayne welcome to the monkey house, we are glad to have you.
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Postby Hexon.Arq » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:55 pm

Move ahead only if you desire the change. Otherwise, save yourself from this.

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Re: What the heck! So many questions...

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Jun 07, 2005 8:15 am

Wayne, I sincerely hope that you've also watched the series itself. Watching Death first can be terribly, terribly confusing.

Reichu wrote:Gendo doesn't get pissed off. He goes into a very uncharacteristic panic -- it's the only time in the show we see him so utterly helpless.
I wouldn't describe it as a panic, so much as astonished bewilderment. :D
Reichu wrote:- Adam's soul: Salvaged from Kaworu's head back into Adam's body - check.

Just on this, why is it that his soul was in his head especially. I'm sure they also included whatever scrapings they gleaned from Unit-01's hand before powerhosing it.
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Re: What the heck! So many questions...

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Postby pav » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:24 am

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Just on this, why is it that his soul was in his head especially. I'm sure they also included whatever scrapings they gleaned from Unit-01's hand before powerhosing it.


Why would the soul stay in his body? Maybe it just returned to Adam the moment he died?

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Re: What the heck! So many questions...

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:05 pm

pav wrote:
ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Just on this, why is it that his soul was in his head especially. I'm sure they also included whatever scrapings they gleaned from Unit-01's hand before powerhosing it.


Why would the soul stay in his body? Maybe it just returned to Adam the moment he died?

Ah! Touche. :D
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Postby Reichu » Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:41 pm

Because in NGE, your soul stays in your body when you die. If you failed to pick up on this, watch EoE again. And maybe episode #23, too.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Dave » Tue Jun 07, 2005 3:07 pm

Reichu wrote:Because in NGE, your soul stays in your body when you die. If you failed to pick up on this, watch EoE again. And maybe episode #23, too.


Human souls do this, but EoE and 23 say nothing on the souls of the Angels.
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Re: What the heck! So many questions...

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Postby Sventevith » Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:33 pm

Reichu wrote:Yeah, AFTER the contact experiment with the Eva in which her soul was sucked out. How her body managed to survive afterwards ... is a mystery, and a matter of discussion many, many threads.



Hey, I want to come with an idea that you then can prove to me that it's wrong!

The memories is maybe not connected to the soul/mind but also to the brain in itself, so the body still lived in the impuls that the brain sent everywhere and she had a little memories, but she could not get any more of them, nor change them or think with real emotions... yeah.
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Postby Defectron » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:36 pm

Correction, they kill ONE Angel. Generally speaking, they tend to be quite useless.


Hey now Asuka did manage to make Zeruel angry enough to chop her up by blasting him with those, if she hadnt gotten chopped up Shinji might not have gone back to pilot and then where would we be? :o
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Postby Timesplitter 01 » Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:55 pm

Welcome Wayne

Glad we could help.

Evangelions story line is supposed o be hard to follow becasue it is supposed to make you think.

I managed to find out everything ( 90% of it anyway) for myself through just thinking and paying attention.

And trust us when we say "our Heads wont explode".

As for Asuka mother. It is up to debate.

Asuka mother was like Yui in that she test piloted an evangelion. The difference is that asukas mother made it out with probably 10% or less of brain function ( probably include normal motor skills eg walking , talking etc) but she had no other ablities eg recogniseing people she knew. This is evident when she start calling a doll Asuka.

"look at that girl over there"

But Asuka mother was truely in Eva 02, the other 90% which had memory of past events , etc.

Asuka is seriously messed up becasue of this ( her mother killing her self and her mother calling the doll Asuka , as well as her finding out what she wanted to do with Asuka nd herself ( hang themself)) . I think that se blames not only herself but also her Dad. Hence why she is so henistant to trust men , the exception being her olderman crush Kaji.

As for comptitiveness it is a bit of natural competition and a bit of her messed up mind.

Asuka effectively has a emotional wall around her to protect her from getting hurt again. When Rei tells Asuka to let the eva into her mind ( Mind my expression here , I havent watch eva for a while :P ), she snaps at Rei when the elevator has almost stopped and she is getting out.

Hence in that sense both Asuka and Shinji are the same they dont want people to get to close to them.

Plus Shinji has the problem that he doesnt want to be around himself.

Lets see Gehirn ( which is later turned into nerv , Gehirn meaning brain ( German)) took the lives of

Yui Ikari - Eva 01 test subject and 1 st and 3rd in comand at Gerhin( if I remember right and also a former member of Seele

Naoko Akagi - Built the magi and top scientist at Gerhin

Asuka mother - Eva 02 test subject and her husband was in charge of one of the bases in europe ( either at that time or later , I can not rember)

Misatos father - top scientist

Notice the pattern, nearly all are females and they all are important to Gerhin.

The ironic thing is that all three ( except mistao's father) souls are in the eva's ( well Naoko Akagi one is debateable ( but might explain why eva unit 00 goes rogue all the time)).

An yet their children work for nerv

Asuka Langley Soryu
Misato Katsuragi
Ritsuko Akagi
Shinji Ikari

This is however hide from them ( except Ritsuko) and Misato knows about her father but not about the other stuff.

I could go on and on , but I dont have the time.
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Postby DatDude » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:35 pm

Actualy as far as I know their is no proof in the series that Yui was a member of Seele, only that they funed her research in college.

Theyrs other information that doesn't comke from the show its self a lot of peole bas theorys on. My advice is to watch the series and the movies and base your gusses of of them alone.

Please guys lets not confuse this n00b. If you mention stuff thats not from the show it self Please say so.
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Postby Soluzar » Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:51 pm

Timesplitter 01 wrote:Lets see Gehirn ( which is later turned into nerv , Gehirn meaning brain ( German)) took the lives of

Yui Ikari - Eva 01 test subject and 1 st and 3rd in comand at Gerhin( if I remember right and also a former member of Seele.


Most of your post is fairly usefull stuff for a newbie, but I would question if there is any solid evidence for Yui having been a member of SEELE. As far as I know, she was just a brilliant researcher that they chose to make into a sort of protege, by way of funding her research. There isn't much about Yui's past in the series at all, and most of the footage that does exist was concentrated solely in #21.

There's strong - pretty much undeniable - evidence that she was working for SEELE, but the term "member" seems to indicate to me a person who is a part of the inner circle, which Yui does not seem to have been. If you'd care to prove me wrong, I stand ready to be corrected, but I will insist on quotations and/or screenies to back up your argument, since this is an evidentiary issue, not a philosophical issue.
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Postby Wayne » Wed Jun 08, 2005 12:06 am

Hey guys, thanks A LOT for the explanations. I really appreciate it. Right now, I have far less questions jumping around in my head after I read a few FAQs and forum topics. Sorry, but just a few burning questions that I can't seem to figure out:

1. In the last part of EoE, did Shinji kill the Rei/Lilith glowing being to stop the Third Impact or what? If he did stop it, why did everyone except Asuka still turn into LCL?

2. Who is that old lady who talks to Kaji in one of the episodes?

3. I know that when Rei merges with Lilith, she will start the Third Impact. But what if Rei merged with Adam? Same result? What if an Angel merges with Lilith?

4. What really is the use of the Lance of Longinus? And if those fake lances (on the MP Evas) don't work, why are they used in initiating the Third Impact?

5. Finally, how do astronomers have photographs of the Milky Way galaxy if we are located in the galaxy? To give an analogy, this is like taking a picture of your house while you are in your living room -- doesn't work. Then, how come some textbooks have pictures of the entire Milky Way as if they were in some distant galaxy and looking at us?

Thanks.

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Postby Timesplitter 01 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:36 am

As far as I can remeber, there was a disccusion between Yui and Fuyutsuki
with Shinji as a little child along side a lake with a tree on the right.

I think it was in the directors cuts.

I pretty sure that she said or hinted that she was on seele.

I will check, I maybe wrong but I am sure that she did say it.

I will only beable to get back to you guys on this in about 18 hours or so from this post.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:09 am

Soluzar wrote:There's strong - pretty much undeniable - evidence that she was working for SEELE, but the term "member" seems to indicate to me a person who is a part of the inner circle, which Yui does not seem to have been. If you'd care to prove me wrong, I stand ready to be corrected, but I will insist on quotations and/or screenies to back up your argument, since this is an evidentiary issue, not a philosophical issue.


NGE2 tells us that Yui's father was a member of Seele. So she was essentially born into the organization. It makes a lot of sense, actually.

Wayne wrote:1. In the last part of EoE, did Shinji kill the Rei/Lilith glowing being to stop the Third Impact or what? If he did stop it, why did everyone except Asuka still turn into LCL?


Just call her GNR (Giant Naked Rei), it's a lot easier.

Shinji rejected Instrumentality after it had effectively been set into motion. I'm not sure who, if anyone, kills her... The disintegration of the 'Liberation Goddess' just seems to symbolize the fact that it is over, and over for good; there is no further place on Earth for 'angelic' entities. GNR has served her purpose, and so has Lilith, for that matter. (And besides, Lilith has an heiress who will probably keep the family tradition going...)

And just so you know, the only reason Asuka didn't turn into LCL is because whatever remained of her (when the harpies were finished with her mother) was vaporized by this:

Image

Image

2. Who is that old lady who talks to Kaji in one of the episodes?


Well, he went to talk to a female contact on two different occasions (episodes #10 and #15). I never checked to see if they were the same person, though... I'll let someone else answer this.

3. I know that when Rei merges with Lilith, she will start the Third Impact. But what if Rei merged with Adam? Same result? What if an Angel merges with Lilith?


Dunno about the last one, but Rei merging with Lilith is not what started Third Impact. (Technically, 3I was being started anyway, in the clouds above.) Is was the "forbidden union" of Adam and Lilith. Rei carried both parts of Adam inside her, and, by entering Lilith, restored Lilith's soul to her body.

4. What really is the use of the Lance of Longinus? And if those fake lances (on the MP Evas) don't work, why are they used in initiating the Third Impact?


Try this: [ttp://animenation.net/forums/showthread.php?t=174785

5. Finally, how do astronomers have photographs of the Milky Way galaxy if we are located in the galaxy? <snip>


That is not relevent to NGE in any way whatsoever, but, now that you mention it, that's a damned good question!
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Postby Reichu » Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:15 am

Dave wrote:Human souls do this, but EoE and 23 say nothing on the souls of the Angels.


If anything, Lilith's soul would be expected to be more like ours than like Adam's. And besides, the behavior of the soul is dictated more by the vessel carrying it. (For example, a human soul in an Eva can do all the same tricks as an Angel soul in an Angel.)

But whatever... Dr. Reichu recommends a hearty dose of this. Start reading at post #35.

And if you don't like it... farbl.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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