EVA-00's Soul

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Postby Zuggy » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:53 pm

Ornette wrote:These are 2 different things happening. Kaworu says that Eva-02's soul has shut itself off, giving some reason to why Asuka wasn't able to synch with it anymore, and that was why Kaworu can control it. The Dummy plug is used to trick the resident soul into believing there's a pilot. The second attempt to trick Yui failed. There is still a pilot (trick) soul interaction happening with Eva-01's case

But the dummy plug doesn't have a soul, so there isn't the usual soul-to-soul interaction.

Ornette wrote:The clear difference between Rei's encounter and everyone else's encounter with themselves, is the others never question "Wait, is that me over there?", which indicate to me either they're not conciously (or lucidly) aware of their situation, as if dreaming or seeing images, or they weren't seeing them at all and the images were put there to aid the narrative.

You know, I'm sure Shinji says "the me inside the Eva?!" as well in 20 or 25/26, but I think that might only be in the dub.

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Postby Ornette » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:49 pm

Zugzwang wrote:
Ornette wrote:These are 2 different things happening. Kaworu says that Eva-02's soul has shut itself off, giving some reason to why Asuka wasn't able to synch with it anymore, and that was why Kaworu can control it. The Dummy plug is used to trick the resident soul into believing there's a pilot. The second attempt to trick Yui failed. There is still a pilot (trick) soul interaction happening with Eva-01's case

But the dummy plug doesn't have a soul, so there isn't the usual soul-to-soul interaction.

But what are the soul to soul interactions exactly? We know there is some sort of link but how does that work? And what exactly is the dummy plug doing that is making the resident soul of an Eva "believe" there is actually a pilot and synch with it?

Ornette wrote:The clear difference between Rei's encounter and everyone else's encounter with themselves, is the others never question "Wait, is that me over there?", which indicate to me either they're not conciously (or lucidly) aware of their situation, as if dreaming or seeing images, or they weren't seeing them at all and the images were put there to aid the narrative.

You know, I'm sure Shinji says "the me inside the Eva?!" as well in 20 or 25/26, but I think that might only be in the dub.

ep20 wrote:Shinji:
Where am I?

Shinji:
Inside the Eva.

Shinji:
Inside the Eva?
Did I pilot the Eva again? Why?

He didn't see/sense another's presence (until much later), and this sequence falls closer to the latter of the 2 I described above as "we're seeing what Shinji is thinking" sort of thing.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:51 pm

Shinji's mind being invaded by Eva-00, accompanied by the sensation that it's like Ayanami but not quite, "inner space" imagery, and an image of a distorted Rei seems difficult to interpret around, in my humble opinion.

I never had any problem with the "the you in my mind; the me in your mind" stuff, since it's during Instrumentality and all of their minds are literally interconnected. At the same time, or alternatively, it might be considered a reference back to this idea:

Episode 16 wrote:Shinji A (OFF):
Who's there?
Who's there?

Shinji B (OFF):
Shinji Ikari.

Shinji A (OFF):
That's me.

Shinji B (OFF):
I am you. People have another self within themselves.
The self is always composed of two people.

Shinji A (OFF):
Two people?

Shinji B (OFF):
The self which is actually seen, and the self observing that.
There are many entities called Shinji Ikari.
The other Shinji Ikari that exists in your mind.
The Shinji Ikari in Misato Katsuragi's mind,
the Shinji in Asuka Sohryu,
the Shinji in Rei Ayanami,
and the Shinji in Gendo Ikari.
All are different Shinji Ikaris, but each of them is a true Shinji Ikari.
You are afraid of those Shinji Ikaris in other people's minds.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:47 pm

The Imperialist wrote:Could it be possible that there is such thing as an ‘artificial soul’?

That is what the CI says the dummy plug is. I advise against taking that too literally though.
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Postby The Imperialist » Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:07 am

When they mean by aritificial soul, I mean by a wholly 'biological' one, not a digital one, that is inside 00.
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Postby Shin-seiki » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:30 am

The Imperialist wrote:When they mean by aritificial soul, I mean by a wholly 'biological' one, not a digital one, that is inside 00.
The CI indicates that the 'Contact Experiments" of Yui and Kyouko were failed attempts at imparting an "artificial soul" into the Evas; interestingly enough, it doesn't include Unit-00 as one of these "failures"...

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Souls of each Eva

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Postby Typhon » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:38 am

Yuis soul is in 01.
Asuka in eoe rants about mother being with her. does that mean that asukas mothers soul is in 02?whos in 00 if thats the case?
Whats the deal?
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jun 08, 2008 2:58 am

You probably want these threads

http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=70
http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5056

I'll merge this into the former thread later.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:49 am

Merged.
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Postby slkdragon » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:47 pm

I for one have been a strong proponent of the 'Rei's Soul is in EVA-00' theory ever since I read it somewhere long ago. However, I've had a few new insights that kinda clash with that idea and thought they'd be worth sharing, even if they are little more than plot holes overlooked by the creators.

Basically it boils down to this: EVA-00 was the first Prototype Evangelion that actually worked. The fact that it worked well enough for them to move on to EVA-01 says to me that they had figured out how to put a soul into 00 and get it to produce an AT-Field even before 01 started being created. So if Rei was created after Yui's experiment in EVA-01, how could her soul be in 00?

Was some placeholder soul in 00 before Rei came along, whose soul was then swapped in? Has it been someone else's soul the entire time (doubtful, but possible)? Or is it something more obvious such as 00 being abandoned to work on 01, followed by them returning to 00 after figuring out everything on 01, making Sho the first real success?

I for one have no idea at the moment, but figured this was just as good a spot to set this idea down as any. Food for thought if nothing else. Sorry in advance for bringing an overly-beaten dead horse back to life, but I had to try and contribute something here after lurking so long and I haven't much else yet.

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Postby VoidEater » Fri Aug 07, 2009 12:52 pm

A prototype is usually the first functional example of a product.

If there's an example prior to the prototype, it is less functional than the prototype. I would not expect 00 to necessarily be capable of much of anything. It's built for test purposes and is not expected to have a full range of capability at that point of the product life cycle.

So, I'm not so sure 00 would need to be so fully functional as you theorize. The last known test prior to Shinji's arrival is a failure.

That last combined with the fact that pylons are added much later suggests a continuing series of improvements on 00 to bring her up to production use.
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:09 pm

Naoko Akagi soul was placed within Eva 00, do I know this as a fact well of course not. Could be that it was only in there for a while then they placed Rei's soul in there to keep it "under control" 00 goes after Gendo due to events that happen while she was alive and ejects Rei cause well she does not like her very much, she already killed her once.
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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Fri Aug 07, 2009 1:42 pm

I wish Anno would just come out and say who's soul is in Unit-00. I would love for him to troll and say it's neither Naoko or Rei I.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:29 pm

Basically it boils down to this: EVA-00 was the first Prototype Evangelion that actually worked. The fact that it worked well enough for them to move on to EVA-01 says to me that they had figured out how to put a soul into 00 and get it to produce an AT-Field even before 01 started being created. So if Rei was created after Yui's experiment in EVA-01, how could her soul be in 00?

Was some placeholder soul in 00 before Rei came along, whose soul was then swapped in? Has it been someone else's soul the entire time (doubtful, but possible)? Or is it something more obvious such as 00 being abandoned to work on 01, followed by them returning to 00 after figuring out everything on 01, making Sho the first real success?


Evangelions don't need to have a soul to be fully functional, only for the AT Field part. They probably just went "okay, is it stable and not gonna rot?" "Uh huh." "Does all the machinery work?" "Uh huh." "Okay, good."


Naoko Akagi soul was placed within Eva 00, do I know this as a fact well of course not. Could be that it was only in there for a while then they placed Rei's soul in there to keep it "under control" 00 goes after Gendo due to events that happen while she was alive and ejects Rei cause well she does not like her very much, she already killed her once.


Wanna give your reasoning for the Naoko theory? It makes no sense for Naoko to be in there, because she's NOT Rei'S MOTHER. Naoko being Unit 00's soul would mean Ritsuko would have to be the pilot.

I wish Anno would just come out and say who's soul is in Unit-00. I would love for him to troll and say it's neither Naoko or Rei I.


It's Sanai.

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Postby Shinji-kun » Fri Aug 07, 2009 2:56 pm

It's Sanai.


Who the F is Sanai?![/quote]

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Postby Xard » Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:02 pm

I guess she ment Sarai
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Postby Ornette » Fri Aug 07, 2009 4:48 pm

Otakon 08 Ikari wrote:Naoko Akagi soul was placed within Eva 00, do I know this as a fact well of course not. Could be that it was only in there for a while then they placed Rei's soul in there to keep it "under control" 00 goes after Gendo due to events that happen while she was alive and ejects Rei cause well she does not like her very much, she already killed her once.

HAHAHAHA no...

http://wiki.evageeks.org/Eva-00%27s_soul

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Postby Barong » Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:16 pm

Gendo volunteered for the Contact Experiment and his "loving-father" part of his soul was lost in the process, Kyoko-style.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:28 pm

Xard wrote:I guess she ment Sarai


I meant who I said. Sanai is to Sarai as Shikinami is to Sohryu.

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Postby Teague » Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:06 am

I'm curious about exactly how 00 got her soul in the first place...Shogoki and Nigoki both explicitly had a 'Contact Experiment' with a willing, living subject interacting directly with an Eva, at least, if Yui's Dive Suit is anything to go by...
Yet the main candidates for Zerogoki's resident were both deceased before any 'contact' had taken place...

Can a contact experiment be performed on a corpse? Perhaps it can, but the soul is 'damaged' somehow, and is the cause of Zerogoki's rebellious nature.

Perhaps a soul will flee to a new container if one is nearby...or perhaps it is a unique trait of the souls of the Progenitors of Life...

Specific mention is made in the CI that Seele somehow 'retrieved' Adam's soul, which had fled her body...how did they retrieve it? What form was it in? Was it in an original Kaworu, and the Tabris just a clone of him?

Stupid soul, why do metaphysics never come with an instruction manual? Bah, it'd probably come in Swahili anyway.

On a side note,
According to Sadamoto , its the thoughts akin to between a mother and her child, or two lovers, which fuel synchronisation
Meaning its entirely plausible that the soul of anyone will do, so long as they have some degree of love for the pilot.

Consider then that, if it is Rei1's soul in Zerogoki, then her ability to synchronize is determined by her ability to love herself, specifically, to love who she has become, compared to who she was.
This ties in well to one of the themes of Evangelion, of the individual being able to accept who they are and what they have become.

Addendum: According to the Red Cross Book, Rei was cloned specifically from what was left of Yui's body after the Contact Experiment...which gives a approximate frame of reference for just when Rei1 and Naoko died,
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