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Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Postby Ticklemaster621 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:07 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Clone of your mother = incest. Not the same person, but incest. And sorry, but if something did 3.0 was to point the sister direction. More than NGE did. You're mixing a lot of things. As long as we know, Rei didn't know she was Yui's clone, of course she is not gonna act the same way, the mind is not cloned. But that doesn't denies what Rei is. And after introducing Rei Q, I don't think Anno will waste a character which needs more development. It's Rei II/III again.


I don´t see Rei Q as a different Rei. In fact, I think she will somehow regain her memories in Final. And you said it yourself, she isn´t the same person. That is a big difference with the usual approach to incest in fiction works, where two people are totally confirmed siblings. And even in those works, the characters didn´t feel what you´d call a familial or sibling attraction between them. They were romantically or sexually attracted, incest was an obstacle but didn´t change the nature of their emotions. Some of them even had kids. I can name a few examples: Star Wars (Luke and Leia), J.R.R. Tolkien with one of his Silmarillion stories (about Túrin Turambar and his sister Niënor) , Gabriel García Márquez with "One hundred years of Sollitude". If you want anime examples, then I could give you a lot. But I guess you probably know some so I don´t need to.

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Ahh, most of your references about blushes took place in NGE too.


Umm not really. Shinji didn´t blush when Rei smiled, and I never saw him complimenting her outfit and blushing in the original series. See, those differences are what makes me think there is a change on their relationship from NGE. Shinji didn´t show an attraction on Rei different from the one he should feel on his mother. Here, he is showing it, as blushing while being around her, and as staring at her naked body (which was in fact on the original series, but was the only sign of attraction different from a familial one)

As for Rei, in the original series she only blushed after he called her "mother". There´s a difference I think.

View Original PostJäeger wrote:And as people said before, Asuka stteping aside was her mistake. AND SHE PAID FOR IT, she fell in Gendo's trap, That dinner never was a romantic dinner. It's the moment were Rei acts more like a sister.


Lets get things straight here. By the way, I´m assuming that with "she paid for it" you are referencing her being seemingly killed by Bardiel. Asuka stepping aside has nothing to do with that. Misato praised her actions, Asuka was emotionally satisfied, and she even earned a "Thank you" from Rei. I don´t believe Asuka being wrong is Anno´s message. What happens after that is only a way of making the plot work. Hell, just when things were going right Asuka, who made the right decision, is screwed by the ninth angel. And it is because of Gendo. If you ask me, that´s a great method to establish him as the bad guy, not to prove Asuka was wrong.

And I guess if Rei is acting like a sister with the dinner then both Asuka and Misato (who were aware of her intentions) were wrong assuming she had romantic feelings. I mean, every character is assuming it , and those assumptions are never denied (not even in 3.0). And more importantly, Asuka SPELLS IT OUT for her. The people behind the movie are bombarding us with the information. It is not a coincidence that most casual viewers assumed Rei and Shinji had romantic feelings for each other. They are not wrong.

To illustrate this, lets imagine that Rebuild ended at 2.22. Or that Final doesn´t center on Shinji and Rei´s relationship at all. In that case, it would only be logical to assume their feelings were in fact romantic, as the last time the relationship was explored (2.22) it was deemed as a romantic one. And that assumption was never denied. Well, 3.0 didn´t deny or confirm anything, as Kaworu occupied all of the space. Therefore, we have to assume they are still romantic. The only change is the Yui thing, and, while it could stop them from being together at the end, it doesn´t change the nature of what they were feeling at 2.22.

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Anno gave people their Rei fanservice and developed the character more than she did in NGE. Now it's time for other bussines.


After all the things I said, even if they don´t form a couple in Final, I heavily disagree with that. If Kaworu isn´t a main character in Final, then Rei must play an important role, simply because those two have moved most of the plot up to this point.

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Sadamoto's manga is not a very good reference :lol: And the funny things it's that as long as the story advances, it has more Asushin details that don't fit well after we've read. Maybe to fit better with the series canon?? Who knows?? Sadamanga is not a very good example of storywriting and I hate the way it applies the archimides principle : to develop a character and her relationship with Shinji (which was fine for me) we sacrifice another one. That one he had the most complex relationship with.


What Asushin moments? The almost kiss, which was in fact toned down from the original series where they actually kissed? The hospital scene, which only led to Rei being jealous during her battle with Armisael? The fight with the MP Evas, which was a way to not let Asuka have the tragic dead she had in EoE? And I don´t see how those scenes overshadow the quantity of Rei/Shinji or Kaworu/Shinji in the manga.

View Original PostJäeger wrote:And what if part of their role is just....die?? Of course they are gonna show themselves again, but not as a main character. There is a new Rei in town and she has new bussines :lol: . Poka Rei out for a full movie and Kaworu main character only for 3.0 (except for 2.0 ending)


As I said before, Rei and Kaworu have moved almost the entire plot up to this point. At least one of them should be important.
Last edited by Ticklemaster621 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:17 pm

Spoilered because omnislash:

Pen-Pen02  SPOILER: Show
View Original PostPen-Pen02 wrote:Yes, of course. But my point is this: Rebuild is more about Shinji and Rei II.


Not really. A subplot of Ha was about Shinji and Rei II. The ENT series is about Shinji, not Shinji and any other character in particular.

This thread is about shipping and in my posts I want to show you there was more connection between Shinji and Rei II than Asuka.


Given the various breadcrumbs earlier described (sprinkled liberally throughout Q) that's debatable, particularly since Rei II is dead.

He needs urgently a friend or love and Rei II is this person.


It's not, because she's dead.

Sadly, Asuka never showed him directly her sweeter side and do it now will be more difficult. Maybe, it's too late for her.


Given that she's with him and alive I'm not convinced.

One more thing: Reifans will kill Anno if she doesn't stay with Shinji at the end in Rebuild.


Reifans can get bent (same with Asukafans, and Kaworufans, and anyone else who insists the story will suck if it doesn't end in their ship of choice). Anno's telling the story he wants to tell, and it's not a story about shipping. I like it as much as the next guy, but you gotta keep some perspective here and distinguish between what you'd like to see happen (shipping) and the actual story.

All this character's development on Rei II could be nothing if Shinji will stay with Asuka at the end.


Actually, given the whole family vibe going on in Ha I think the character development of Rei II could be preserved marvelously if she manages to heal the rift between Gendo and Shinji. That's what she cares about. Who he ends up with romantically is of no great concern to her.

(Just my opinion: In NGE and films, Shinji is closer to Asuka. She reciprocates him and I think they have big feelings between them.


Huh? Where do you get that from? In NGE proper there's nothing between them at all, and even in the DC material it's pretty one-sided and confused. There's really not a lot to work with there. There's potential, room for growth, but none of it's realized in the show.


Ticklemaster621  SPOILER: Show
View Original PostTicklemaster621 wrote:I don´t see Rei Q as a different Rei.


She lacks Rei II's soul, Rei II is explicitly locked up in Unit 01, and ReiQ is rather obviously doing her own thing. I don't see how she could fail to be a different character.

Lets get things straight here. By the way, I´m assuming that with "she paid for it" you are referencing her being seemingly killed by Bardiel. Asuka stepping aside has nothing to do with that. Misato praised her actions, Asuka was emotionally satisfied, and she even earned a "Thank you" from Rei. I don´t believe Asuka being wrong is Anno´s message.


It was, actually. This was the equivalent of her fight with the MPEs in EoE, where she ran away to Eva and suffered as a result. Anno is telling us that retreating to a world of fantasy is not the way to resolve our problems, which is why Asuka's decision led to disaster for her. In Q we see she's learned her lesson, because her life does not revolve around piloting -- the Eva is a tool to her now, and she's more interested in getting things done -- tending to real life matters -- and being an adult.

And I guess if Rei is acting like a sister with the dinner then both Asuka and Misato (who were aware of her intentions) were wrong assuming she had romantic feelings.


Yes, that's exactly right. Asuka was wrong, she jumped to conclusions, and she suffered for it. As has been noted many times before, Rei didn't understand what she was feeling. But she very pointedly wanted to bring Shinji and his father together. That was the point of the dinner party, and romancing Shinji was never indicated to be a part of her agenda.

I mean, every character is assuming it , and those assumptions are never denied (not even in 3.0). And more importantly, Asuka SPELLS IT OUT for her. The people behind the movie are bombarding us with the information. It is not a coincidence that most cassual viewers assumed Rei and Shinji had romantic feelings for each other. They are not wrong.


We actually don't know that, because we've seen no proof to speak of that they ever felt that way. We know Asuka had the hots for Shinji, and that's it. Neither Rei nor Shinji ever confirmed anything on the matter.

As I said before, Rei and Kaworu have moved almost the entire plot up to this point. At least one of them should be important.


Rei and Kaworu have not moved the plot. Gendo has moved the plot, and the plot has revolved around Shinji. It was Shinji and Misato in Jo, Shinji and Rei/Asuka in Ha, and Shinji and Kaworu in Q. It will probably be, if anything, Shinji and Gendo in Final. We won't see any shipping there (save perhaps for a coda of some sort, if Anno's feeling generous), and the dead folks will return as flashbacks or farewells at best. Assuming they will return in a major role when they've clearly been removed from the stage doesn't make sense given what's come before.
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Postby Pen-Pen02 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:52 pm

Huh? Where do you get that from? In NGE proper there's nothing between them at all, and even in the DC material it's pretty one-sided and confused. There's really not a lot to work with there. There's potential, room for growth, but none of it's realized in the show.


Yeah, and that's the reason that I try to be careful and I don't say exactly LOVE between them. In EVA, it's too difficult talking about love in whole story, it's confused in here. But, It's true that there is a lot of chemistry between Asuka and Shinji (that's the reason I say this attraction is reciprocated) and who knows, in other and better conditions these children could have lived a big romance (I'm talking about NGE, Rebuild is another story). But, this thread is about just shipping and EVA obviously is more than this. That's why I'm talking about only shipping here and well, I just said there are two logic possibilities for Shinji: be alone (also a big probability) or be with Rei II (I don't believe she's dead, I think she will come back). And I believe it more than before because Rei II's soul (?) appears in 3.0. In one way or another (dead or alive), she will come back and go to see Shinji. It's difficult defining if Rei II is really dead or live. I can't define Rei's nature, because I don't know. But for me (it's my opinion), I can say that if her soul is alive, I believe she could come back. I think her body doesn't matter. She can have another new one. In EVA, I think souls are more important than bodies.
Last edited by Pen-Pen02 on Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bagheera » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:58 pm

That's true, but I think it more likely Shinji will wind up piloting again and see her in the Eva/Instrumentality/whatever. I definitely think she'll be a part of the story, but I don't think a new body's in the cards for her -- if she was going to come back she would have done it in Q, same as Shinji.

Edit: Sorry, my previous post was a little pushy. I'm just voicing my opinion like everyone else, and didn't mean to say people were completely wrong or whatever.
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I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Pen-Pen02 » Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:47 pm

Personally, I think there is a "problem" or real situation here: since 3.0, audience have been lost, because they don't know how EVA's new plot have to continue. So, everything could happen and I believe people don't have to close their minds to new possibilities. In old EVA, Rei II is dead and that's it. Who knows, here Rei II could be a kind of "ace up the sleeve" and to appear with a new body. Until some time, I never thought about that in EVA could past 14 years or in a new group as Wille. Less in a new character as Mari and her pink EVA. So, now I could believe everything.

What about this possibility? Imagine that all Rei's clones are destroyed and ReiQ gives to Rei II her body because ReiQ wants to live as a soul in the mind of all people and have some power and immortality like a goddess (similar to Lilith). This is because ReiQ doesn't want to be alone and she could decide to learn about the heart's people and becoming in a kind of new Lilith could be a good way to live with all of them forever (and in this way, she would do what she wants, following Asuka's advice). But Shinji and all the people finally could reject this new Human Instrumentality Project, dying ReiQ in the process. Then, Rei II could be free of her nature and living a new normal life and shipping could continue. I believe nothing is written in stone now.

Edit: Sorry, my previous post was a little pushy. I'm just voicing my opinion like everyone else, and didn't mean to say people were completely wrong or whatever.


Don't worry Bagheera. It happens when fans talk about EVA.
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Postby Chuckman » Wed Sep 17, 2014 1:50 pm

If Rei's angelic nature were somehow removed and she became a normal human girl she'd be even more Shinji's Mom-Sister than she is now. I think people would object to that, even the Eva fandom. I'm open to it, I mean, is a man not entitled to the clone of his mother?

It's not on the table, though. If you think this is going to end with a green-eyed chestnut-haired Rei emerging to live a normal life free of Eva... no.

Not to mention that Rei, when you get down to brass tacks, is Lilith. Man may love a god, but keep her not.
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Postby Jäeger » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:38 am

View Original PostTicklemaster621 wrote:I don´t see Rei Q as a different Rei. In fact, I think she will somehow regain her memories in Final. And you said it yourself, she isn´t the same person. That is a big difference with the usual approach to incest in fiction works, where two people are totally confirmed siblings. And even in those works, the characters didn´t feel what you´d call a familial or sibling attraction between them. They were romantically or sexually attracted, incest was an obstacle but didn´t change the nature of their emotions. Some of them even had kids. I can name a few examples: Star Wars (Luke and Leia), J.R.R. Tolkien with one of his Silmarillion stories (about Túrin Turambar and his sister Niënor) , Gabriel García Márquez with "One hundred years of Sollitude". If you want anime examples, then I could give you a lot. But I guess you probably know some so I don´t need to.

Luke fucked Leia??? NO.And FYI, worst example ever. After the shocking truth, "love triangle" is shattered into pieces, in characters and viewer eyes. The taboo is still a taboo, and fucking your mommy's clone is ever more aberrant than your sister and cousin. Have you heard about Anima? It shows in a realistic way the consecuences of Rei being a clone. As long as she grows uo, she is terrified witnessing she is becoming Yui.



Umm not really. Shinji didn´t blush when Rei smiled, and I never saw him complimenting her outfit and blushing in the original series. See, those differences are what makes me think there is a change on their relationship from NGE. Shinji didn´t show an attraction on Rei different from the one he should feel on his mother. Here, he is showing it, as blushing while being around her, and as staring at her naked body (which was in fact on the original series, but was the only sign of attraction different from a familial one)


Ehhh...no. Shinji acts in no different way he did in NGE. He blushed and get nervous in many situations and many characters thought it was a romantic interest.


As for Rei, in the original series she only blushed after he called her "mother". There´s a difference I think.


Nein. Even Touji could notice her feelings


To illustrate this, lets imagine that Rebuild ended at 2.22. Or that Final doesn´t center on Shinji and Rei´s relationship at all. In that case, it would only be logical to assume their feelings were in fact romantic, as the last time the relationship was explored (2.22) it was deemed as a romantic one. And that assumption was never denied. Well, 3.0 didn´t deny or confirm anything, as Kaworu occupied all of the space. Therefore, we have to assume they are still romantic. The only change is the Yui thing, and, while it could stop them from being together at the end, it doesn´t change the nature of what they were feeling at 2.22.




No, it changes everything, the same way it did in NGE despite never being said in the series. Many Rei shippers act like 3.0 never took place. But it did. And changed everything, it changed all the rules. Kaworu is dead, Rei II is "dead" ¿They will be back?Of course....the same way Yui will be. There is a new Rei in town and she is not gonna be sacrificied to fanservice, because he needs development and being an individual it`s part of that develipment. She is not Rei II with amnesia waiting for her memories, she is a different character, even if she gains Rei II memories. There is Fuyutski's infodump, which turned tables upside down and made Rei ore Yui's daughter than ever. There is the infamous Eva curse, which it's a trick so cheap for a writer that must have another purpouse than selling merchandise. And never forget Mari's, whose words are always two steps ahead of the viewer.



What Asushin moments? The almost kiss, which was in fact toned down from the original series where they actually kissed? The hospital scene, which only led to Rei being jealous during her battle with Armisael? The fight with the MP Evas, which was a way to not let Asuka have the tragic dead she had in EoE? And I don´t see how those scenes overshadow the quantity of Rei/Shinji or Kaworu/Shinji in the manga.


:lol: Have we read the same manga? Penpen02 has said the same as me. Towards the end there are subtle changes they act one to each other. What felt weird to me, after paying so much attention to Shinji's and Rei relationship (which never felt romantic,at least for Shinji's side, same as NGE). And we better don't tal about the ending, which may be called "ambiguous" about Asuka, but not about Rei. Like or not, but it's how it is.

PEN PEN 02

One more thing: Reifans will kill Anno if she doesn't stay with Shinji at the end in Rebuild. All this character's development on Rei II could be nothing if Shinji will stay with Asuka at the end. (Just my opinion: In NGE and films, Shinji is closer to Asuka. She reciprocates him and I think they have big feelings between them. Also in manga, because it starts with more R/S, but it finally went to S/A. I don't have doubts of this. But now Rebuild could be a big bastion for R/S, so Anno would become this relationship come true)


If you think Anno is here to please fans, you have chosen the wrong show :lol: Rei has always been the more popular character, and that never has stopped Anno to do what he wants. Of course Rei is a more developed character, but this is not a romantic anime.

I agree with Bagheera : the main problem Shinji and Asuka had in NGE it's that never reciprocated their feelings, despite being attracted one to each other. That miscomunication, that continue failure, that reflection of Kaji/Misato's relationship, lead to 3I. NGE is S/A? Of course. In a romantic way? Not in a "highs chool romance" way. Pure drama. And that it's what makes NGE interesting. And that kind of relationships it's what I miss in NTE.
Last edited by Jäeger on Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Monk Ed » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:13 am

View Original PostJäeger wrote:FAIL.

Jäeger, is this any way to conduct yourself? You can do better than that.
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Postby Jäeger » Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:03 am

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote:Jäeger, is this any way to conduct yourself? You can do better than that.


You're right. I noticed a moment ago :facepalm: . And it's fixed

Sorry. It had no harsh meaning.
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Postby Pen-Pen02 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:41 am

If you think Anno is here to please fans, you have chosen the wrong show :lol: Rei has always been the more popular character, and that never has stopped Anno to do what he wants. Of course Rei is a more developed character, but this is not a romantic anime.

Hahahahaha, obviously you're right Jäeger... EVA isn't a romantic anime (that's the reason why I like it XD) but I was talking about Rebuild for Rei shippers. In whole NGE world, I think Anno leaves most possibilities to join Shinji to Asuka than Rei II (it's just my POV). But now Rebuild appears as a big chance to change it. (Who knows, it could happen. Just saying...)

Anyway, I think we could do a new thread about who has most possibilities (or maybe no one) to stay with Shinji at the end and why. A poll could help also. But despite all this, Anno will have the last word finally XD
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Postby Rei IV » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:11 pm

View Original PostChuckman wrote:Not to mention that Rei, when you get down to brass tacks, is Lilith. Man may love a god, but keep her not.

That's actually a VERY GOOD argument opposing LRS. As much as I dig LRS, I'm one who also likes to look at Rei and Shinji's relationship, in both continuities, as the former trying to understand herself and human intimacy with Shinji being the important link, which can totally be NON-SEXUAL. Some of the strongest friendships can be just as strong as familial relationships or two people in love.

Great post Chuckman. Here have a nekkid Rei!

:rei_hissyfit:

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Postby obliterates » Thu Sep 18, 2014 2:57 pm

Khara's new Eva game for the Tokyo Game Show:

SPOILER: Show
ImageImage


Rei Asuka and Mari get generic ad poses. There is no way to argue with this.[/spoiler]
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Postby Ticklemaster621 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:15 pm

View Original PostJäeger wrote:Luke fucked Leia??? NO.And FYI, worst example ever. After the shocking truth, "love triangle" is shattered into pieces, in characters and viewer eyes. The taboo is still a taboo, and fucking your mommy's clone is ever more aberrant than your sister and cousin. Have you heard about Anima? It shows in a realistic way the consecuences of Rei being a clone. As long as she grows uo, she is terrified witnessing she is becoming Yui.


I don´t know why you think one situation is better than the other. If you think fucking your sister is somehow better than fucking your mother then you are pretty messed up. Both things are equally bad. I guess marriage between cousins is permitted in some countries so that could be okay.

However, this is fiction, I don´t really care what a character´s morals are in this story, . In other words, I´m not Shinji. Besides, (again...) Rei is a different person, and some people will tell you that the horrible thing about incest is marrying someone you have had a completely different relationship with during your life, not the genetic thing.

The purpose of those examples was to prove that characters who were siblings could in fact feel romantic attraction between them . I said "some of them even have kids", "SOME". Guess you need to read more carefully, I was reffering to the characters in the books, which you probably haven´t read, cause I don´t see you critizicing those examples.


View Original PostJäeger wrote:Ehhh...no. Shinji acts in no different way he did in NGE. He blushed and get nervous in many situations and many characters thought it was a romantic interest.


I think he cared more about Asuka in NGE. Also, I never saw anything like "Give Ayanami back" on the original series. And I´d need some examples of him getting flustered around Rei in NGE, cause I can´t remember any.


View Original PostJäeger wrote:Nein. Even Touji could notice her feelings


If she blushed and got surprised when he called her "mother", I guess her feelings had originated on a familial bond. It is pretty obvius actually. However, if she blushes when he offers her lunch, which has nothing to do with her being a clone of his mother, then her feelings are originated on something else.


View Original PostJäeger wrote:No, it changes everything, the same way it did in NGE despite never being said in the series. Many Rei shippers act like 3.0 never took place. But it did. And changed everything, it changed all the rules. Kaworu is dead, Rei II is "dead" ¿They will be back?Of course....the same way Yui will be. There is a new Rei in town and she is not gonna be sacrificied to fanservice, because he needs development and being an individual it`s part of that develipment. She is not Rei II with amnesia waiting for her memories, she is a different character, even if she gains Rei II memories. There is Fuyutski's infodump, which turned tables upside down and made Rei ore Yui's daughter than ever. There is the infamous Eva curse, which it's a trick so cheap for a writer that must have another purpouse than selling merchandise. And never forget Mari's, whose words are always two steps ahead of the viewer.


I, at least, don´t act as if 3.0 never existed. 3.0 existed, and it stated that Rei was a clone of Shinji´s mother. In spite of that, Rei´s feelings for Shinji keep being romantic, because 2.0 made us think that without denying it. Rei being a clone of Yui doesn´t obligue her to feel the same emotions. In other words, it hasn´t yet been denied. Shinji´s side of things is debatable, cause he could unconsciously recognize his own mother, and his feelings could be based on that. However, I still don´t see examples of Shinji getting flustered around Rei in NGE, so I see a change in his attitude. Therefore, it could end in a completely different fashion.

I guess Rei being a clone could be an obstacle to them getting together in the end (not because it changes their feelings, but because of the highly debated incest). I can give A/S shippers that. However, the next big thing for Shinji (in Rebuild) was Kaworu. So I would put my bets on that ship (if Shinji actually ends with someone other than his hand)


View Original PostJäeger wrote: Have we read the same manga? Penpen02 has said the same as me. Towards the end there are subtle changes they act one to each other. What felt weird to me, after paying so much attention to Shinji's and Rei relationship (which never felt romantic,at least for Shinji's side, same as NGE). And we better don't talk about the ending, which may be called "ambiguous" about Asuka, but not about Rei. Like or not, but it's how it is.


You are right, we must have read different mangas, cause in what I read, towards the end, Asuka still thought about Kaji on her last seconds. And the encounter on the train station doesn´t mean anything, as it is probable that Shinji never saw Asuka again. The clear purpose of that was to be "ambiguous" in whether Shinji had some memories of his previous existence.

View Original PostJäeger wrote: FAIL


View Original PostJäeger wrote: And FYI worst example ever


I guess I touched a nerve somehow. You are 33 years old, oji - san. You should already know how to behave yourself, especially when you are debating on a forum with someone who is half your age (and who hadn´t even insulted you or your thoughts in the first place). If you don´t agree with my arguments, suit yourself, you can try to refute them or deny them, that´s why I´m here. But trying to bug me with phrases like those is just stupid and childish.

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Postby Jäeger » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:25 am

View Original PostTicklemaster621 wrote:
However, this is fiction, I don´t really care what a character´s morals are in this story, . In other words, I´m not Shinji. Besides, (again...) Rei is a different person, and some people will tell you that the horrible thing about incest is marrying someone you have had a completely different relationship with during your life, not the genetic thing.


Sorry, but IMO incest is all about genetics. Of course she is a different person, still an exact replica of her mother. If she doesnt' have the same memories from the original she is not a clone? Is not the way it works.

Nobody is gonna tell you is horrible to fuck your step sister (well, maybe your parents :lol:), but everybody is gonna cry loud if you do the same with your real sister, even you didn't know the truth or you haven't grow up together. And Luke and Leia example it's a good one.


I think he cared more about Asuka in NGE. Also, I never saw anything like "Give Ayanami back" on the original series. And I´d need some examples of him getting flustered around Rei in NGE, cause I can´t remember any.


In the first six chapters?? There is no much difference in her attitude towards Rei than in 1.0. And raise their hands those who didn't think at the beginning that Rei was "the ship".

If she blushed and got surprised when he called her "mother", I guess her feelings had originated on a familial bond. It is pretty obvius actually. However, if she blushes when he offers her lunch, which has nothing to do with her being a clone of his mother, then her feelings are originated on something else.


Uhmmmm You forgot the other moments she blushed?? Because the "mother" sequence is not the only one Do you remember when he brings her homework to her home?? When Touji tells her he noticed her feelings toward Shinji?


I guess Rei being a clone could be an obstacle to them getting together in the end (not because it changes their feelings, but because of the highly debated incest). I can give A/S shippers that. However, the next big thing for Shinji (in Rebuild) was Kaworu. So I would put my bets on that ship (if Shinji actually ends with someone other than his hand)


Kawouru is Jesuschrist, he is here to love all human beings, not only Shinji :lol:




You are right, we must have read different mangas, cause in what I read, towards the end, Asuka still thought about Kaji on her last seconds. And the encounter on the train station doesn´t mean anything, as it is probable that Shinji never saw Asuka again. The clear purpose of that was to be "ambiguous" in whether Shinji had some memories of his previous existence.


And that Kaji last thought for me was at the same time stupid (but not surprising taking into account the abysmal portraying of her character) but in the other hand coherent : he was the only person she could open her heart. It's not about liking or not, the same way kaworu did in EoE with Shinji. But i don't take the Sadamoto's fanfic too serious : all the effort Anno put in her development and relationships with the other characters i thrown to the garbage can.

The ending is ambiguous in purpouse of the open possibilities of their new future. That could mean they'll never see each other again, or they will go to the same high school whith Kensuke. Both options have potential, that is ambiguosity. Shinji's deja vu and blush are not ambiguous : ithey take place, and there is symbolism around that scene. I would like to hear your answer If you switched Asuka with Rei and kept that scene the exact same with the hand motif, and exact dialogue and expressions. Still a crappy and coward ending IMO :everything they suffered meant nothing. Reset and here we go : the ones enjoying a happy life are different characters.


I guess I touched a nerve somehow. You are 33 years old, oji - san. You should already know how to behave yourself, especially when you are debating on a forum with someone who is half your age (and who hadn´t even insulted you or your thoughts in the first place). If you don´t agree with my arguments, suit yourself, you can try to refute them or deny them, that´s why I´m here. But trying to bug me with phrases like those is just stupid and childish.


Wroing choice of words, sorry and I know I've been a little pushy, never had any kind of problema in other forum using them (and I've ben writting in them about your age). But that doesn't give you to right to insult your seniors, brat (I can call you that if you call me oji san, right?). Except for those isolated moments, It's what i've done : refuting your arguments. So you better choice your words because they sound arrogant.
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:33 am

You just have to remember that the young will always get the last word!

(They'll still be around when we're gone.)
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Postby Jäeger » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:38 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:You just have to remember that the young will always get the last word!

(They'll still be around when we're gone.)


They global warming is the proof that it's not always true :lol:
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:48 am

Heh! And it's not as though I've not said that a lot, either!

But of course, that just ensures that they will respect us even less.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:01 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:Heh! And it's not as though I've not said that a lot, either!

But of course, that just ensures that they will respect us even less.


This is why I've never had children (well, one reason of many): I could never look them in the eye again after bringing them into this mess.
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Postby Jäeger » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:08 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:This is why I've never had children (well, one reason of many): I could never look them in the eye again after bringing them into this mess.


If global warming were the only problem we leave them........Corruption, passive attitude towards elites, Africa......
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Postby pwhodges » Fri Sep 19, 2014 3:11 am

And yet... we bequeath them greater knowledge (and specifically, awareness) of how bad things are than we had, and who's to say if they might be able to move towards improving them?
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
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