Flaws in NGE?

[AyrYntake]

Oh wait, that's us.

[Reichu]

It's Anno's fault we're that way.

[Mackerni]

Now that I think about it, isn't one of the most major flaws in NGE have to do with the logical sense of, "everybody becoming one"?

Gendo wanted this so he could be with Yui, who committed suicide because she killed the first Rei. BUT Rei three said that this existence of everybody being one" isn't death. Therefore, how could have Gendo be with Yui unless her soul inside the EVA also became part of this one?

Oh.

Never mind.

[majlund]

Gendo wanted this so he could be with Yui, who committed suicide because she killed the first Rei.

I think you might have something a little mixed up here...

[henna]

Mackerni, it's Naoko Akagi that jumps to her death after killing Rei I. Yui Ikari was abosorbed into Unit 01 during a contact experiment, and Gendo wants to be reunited with her in instrumentality which includes all human souls.

Also, Rei I was created from the salvaged remains of Yui Ikari.

[Mackerni]

Yeah ... I probably got it confused.

I have the box set and I've only seen it once. That was when I was 14. I'm 19 now. 0_0

[GVman]

The main issue with EVA is that a lot of the major plot points are taken from Space Runaway Ideon.

[Evangelion217]

However, I stand by my initial assertion that "Komm Susser Tod" was a poor choice to use for End of Evangelion. First of all, no matter what anyone says, it's a pop song.

It's actually more of an anti-pop song, since it completely talks about the effects of being in clinical depression. It's an up-lifting, disturbing, and beautiful piece of music. It's one of the reasons to why "End of Evangelion" is so great. If you take it out, you lose that emotional impact. It's pretty obviouse that you simply have no taste in quality music. ;)

[Evangelion217]

The main issue with EVA is that a lot of the major plot points are taken from Space Runaway Ideon.

No, certain imagery in "End of Evangelion" come from "Space Runaway Ideon." But the "kill them all syndrome" is something that was truly inspired by "Space Runaway Ideon." So when you watch an anime where all of your favorite characters die, blame "Ideon." lol

[LIGHTFIRELT]

The ambiguity of Yui's intentions (well actually I just haven't figured out.)

[Legendary]

They got Asuka's name and rank wrong EVERY time. That's a pretty big flaw right there. :P

Okay, Webuild quips aside, I think the main flaws are not being entirely clear on what was going in 24' (I'm SURE there's a logical explanation, or at least one that only involves a few minor changes in dialogue, but I'm not seeing it), the sudden abandonment of Toji/Kensuke/Hikari from the plot (especially Kensuke's. do we ever see his reaction to Toji? I don't remember it), and, in my personal opinion, Episode 11. All the other Angels were on a scale of increasing difficulty, excepting Sandalphon which was a BABY, but Matarael posed no real challenge. They could have done something with it, maybe actually making it responsible for the electrical shortages instead of just having it show up at the right time.

So, basically, I don't like the plot hole and the two big bits of wasted potential. But I guess you can't have everything...

Until I find a way to become director of LAEM... I'll fix EVERYTHING... and Matarael will have laz0r beams and magical abilities and be capable of launching nukes and.... (jk)

[Dr. Nick]

No, certain imagery in "End of Evangelion" come from "Space Runaway Ideon."

More precisely, certain key concepts and some imagery come from Ideon. But the shows are also very different in many respects: for example, Ideon takes place monstly in deep space and involves warp travel, the enemies are not mysterious monsters but military vessels piloted by human-looking aliens, etc.

But the "kill them all syndrome" is something that was truly inspired by "Space Runaway Ideon." So when you watch an anime where all of your favorite characters die, blame "Ideon." lol

I think Ideon is Tomino's only show where literally everybody dies, but some of his earlier shows were pretty damn brutal as well (I've heard Triton was his first high-bodycount show). Zambot 3, for instance, is in some ways even more horrifying than Ideon or EoE.

[NemZ]

The 'kill em all' theme is far older than Ideon. Think Hamlet, Titus Andronicus, Romeo and Juliet, and quite a few of Shakespeare's other works. Or even older with the Illiad, Oedepus Rex and Antigone, and the rest of Greek Tragedy.

[affynity]

I think EVA definitely has flaws but they act both positively and negatively.
I mean some stories are very clearly defined and have such little room for interpretation BUT, adversely, some stories have such a mutable structure that it can be impossible to gain concensus on important matters or the outcomes/significance of events.

I think I recognise EVAs particular type of flaw. The actual extent of the content in the story being told probably exceeds the amount of content being that is conveyed and assimilated.
In other words: The authors know more than they are able to communicate to the viewer.
It's a very common occurence in creative writing.

I don't think it's worth noting the changes that occur naturally when the animation director changes episode-to-episode. That's standard practise in anime. (and usually you do get directors whose work stands out for being either above-par or below-par)

[affynity]

Oh I forgot

Lilith > Seed of Life > Knowledge > Bacteria?

Does not compute!

(and let's not get started on viruses - we can't even decide whether they even are alive lol)

[NemZ]

The actual extent of the content in the story being told probably exceeds the amount of content being that is conveyed and assimilated.

Honestly, it's probably exactly the opposite of this: fans read WAY more into it then Anno consciously put in. He put in a good deal of depth and symbolism, certainly, but that taste has driven people crazy searching for more where Anno simply handwaved or defaulted to "looks awesome" logic.

[GVman]

No, certain imagery in "End of Evangelion" come from "Space Runaway Ideon."

More precisely, certain key concepts and some imagery come from Ideon. But the shows are also very different in many respects: for example, Ideon takes place monstly in deep space and involves warp travel, the enemies are not mysterious monsters but military vessels piloted by human-looking aliens, etc.

But the "kill them all syndrome" is something that was truly inspired by "Space Runaway Ideon." So when you watch an anime where all of your favorite characters die, blame "Ideon." lol

I think Ideon is Tomino's only show where literally everybody dies, but some of his earlier shows were pretty damn brutal as well (I've heard Triton was his first high-bodycount show). Zambot 3, for instance, is in some ways even more horrifying than Ideon or EoE.

Triton had an entire race going extinct. As for Ideon, not only do all of the main characters die, but so does all intelligent life in the universe.

[Reichu]

Honestly, it's probably exactly the opposite of this: fans read WAY more into it then Anno consciously put in. He put in a good deal of depth and symbolism, certainly, but that taste has driven people crazy searching for more where Anno simply handwaved or defaulted to "looks awesome" logic.

A recurring problem with interpreting any fictional work is that there is often no clear line between "intentionally put within the work" and "audience seeing something not intentionally put there". Exacerbating the problem is that patterns often emerge organically from within a work, and connections form 'of their own accord'. These aren't necessarily meaningless. (On my own excursions into writing, they've actually helped guide the process, and made me aware that 'there's more going on here than even *I* knew!'.)

[GVman]

Same here.

[NemZ]

These aren't necessarily meaningless. (On my own excursions into writing, they've actually helped guide the process, and made me aware that 'there's more going on here than even *I* knew!'.)

Certainly. In Steven King's On Writting he mentions that sort of thing happening all the time in his rough drafts. When he notices such occurrences while rewriting he tries to bring them more to the front and work them in consciously in other appropriate places in the story, a bit like letting the story tell itself.

On the other hand, any medium of communication is at least a 2-person affair, with at least 2 different ways of interpreting the world overlaying the same space. Thus, what is meaningfully deep to the audience need not have any meaning whatsoever for the director if it's something that arises from the interaction of the work with the mind of the receiver.