MP Eva Souls

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MP Eva Souls

Postby VoidEater » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:36 pm

Are souls required for the MP Evas?

It could be a case of a soul is always necessary to activate an Eva, even an MP Eva.

Or could it be a case of the body responding to Kaworu's Dummy Plug - since Kaworu can only sync with an Eva whose resident soul is in hiding ("not present"), might a resident soul in the case of the MP Evas be unnecessary?

Have I missed something in the series that might shed light on this?

Things I have noticed: MP Evas suicide by piercing their cores (so there may be a soul in there - or they may just be coincidentally piercing their core to get to the plug; the profile of the stuck MP Eva with the moon behind at 1:12 of EoE shows that possibility).

MP Evas when dying don't display any pyrotechnics which might suggest there's a soul in them (although neither do some Angels or Eva 02 - but I don't recall seeing her core get breached specifically).

If there are souls in the MP Evas, it seems it would be best that they are "in hiding" so that commands can be directed to them via "Adam's thought patterns" in the dummy plug without interference.

edit: typo
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:46 pm

Assuming Kaworu wasn't lying, the ATF directly requires a soul. Adam only has one soul, so it's not possible that the dummy plugs used in the MPEs actually contained sentient Kaworus... more likely blanks with imprinted memory, just enough to 'turn the key' as it were (which would also explain why they generally suck at fighting). Thus there must be souls in the MPEs: either willing donors from Seele's ranks or conscripted labor.
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Postby Action_Bastard » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:53 pm

NemZ wrote:conscripted labor.


That's what I am thinking. Considering each MP was made in a different country, each MP had a resident soul from a donor from said country. It could be a neat trick to where the MPs represented the whole of the world, with the human race representing the whole of humanity as the last angel. Each MP represented a different country and had a residing soul of a human from that country.

As well as, yes, as NemZ pointed out, there has to be a soul to start an eva, as it would be, and that the dummy plug system with Kaworu's thought patterns is what makes the eva move.
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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:57 pm

The MP Eva's run on the Dummy Plug system or they all have Kaworu or "Adam's" soul within them...How that works is being discussed within another topic. Its like the soul is a piece of cake and everyone is cutting some off and passing it around.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:26 pm

Eva-01 has Yui's soul but has a Rei dummy plug in them. Most people posit that Adam's soul was not part of the dummy plug, as Ritsuko put it, you can't copy souls. The cores themselves contain a soul separate of that of the pilot.

One hint is when the cores are broken near the end of EoE and it glows red as if the soul was leaving. But take what Ritsuko says about it being impossible to copy a soul and that the dummy plugs didn't have Rei's soul (Rei was the only one), and that Eva-01's activation with the dummy plug had a resident soul in the core (Yui), I think it's safe to assume that the Kaworu dummy plugs don't have souls, and the cores do.

Nobody knows whose they are, like NemZ says, they might have been taken against their will (just need to find suitable and kill them). As an interesting note, there was some wild speculation many years ago involving the scene that was removed in EoE where Kensuke tells Shinji that they were all heading to Germany (Toji playing basketball in a wheel chair), which lead to the possibility that the students from 2-A WERE the souls in the MPE. But, wild speculation, that's all.

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Postby VoidEater » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:50 pm

Thanks all - yes, they have ATF, therefore they have soul...I hadn't heard about the deleted scene before, that is suggestive at the very least.
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Postby Xard » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:03 pm

I think scene was deleted for the very reason what it seems to suggest.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 26, 2009 5:13 pm

I think it should have been left it for that very reason. Oh, the tragic irony never stops. Hell, maybe Hikari is the one who tossed that lance!
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:31 pm

It's fun to dream.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:36 pm

Toji is the one she actually had a multiple-swing swordfight with, and Kensuke got the needles in his head.

The ones she was especially mean to (knee through the head, cut in half, jam my arm though you to get to someone more interesting) were the unnamed members of Shinji's fan club.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:39 pm

^
I like the way you think. :lol:

Where pray tell would Hikari fit into that scheme of things?


In seriousness though: I don't think the MPs had the souls of the 2-A classmates. Instead, I think they were just souls of random Seele employees or something. That cut scene with wheelchair Toji was probably deleted for a reason afterall.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:49 pm

Actually, Toji dying is one of the things that I believe the manga did better than the show.

And mentioned above, Hikari would be the one that just lost a leg and probably threw that headshot lance.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:50 pm

I think I had read that it wasn't included because it didn't fit with the movie.

Firstly, in episode 24, Shinji says:
Episode 24 wrote:Shinji:
Everyone, including Toji and Kensuke, lost their homes and left.
My friends... I don't have anyone I can call a friend anymore.
There's no one.


Which wouldn't make sense if they were still around doing their goodbyes with Shinji in EoE. I doubt it was because they didn't want to insinuate that class 2-A students' souls are in the MPEs.

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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:00 pm

When I first thought of the MP Evangelions having possible souls...

The first thing that came to mind was...<no>

Mentally Disabled Children with the Urge to Kill.
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Postby Xard » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:29 pm

Ornette wrote:I think I had read that it wasn't included because it didn't fit with the movie.

Firstly, in episode 24, Shinji says:
Episode 24 wrote:Shinji:
Everyone, including Toji and Kensuke, lost their homes and left.
My friends... I don't have anyone I can call a friend anymore.
There's no one.


Which wouldn't make sense if they were still around doing their goodbyes with Shinji in EoE. I doubt it was because they didn't want to insinuate that class 2-A students' souls are in the MPEs.


Forgot about that :)
ran1: Oh gosh this sentence gave me an internet boner. You're so tsundere.
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And don't forget to wear the Ran mask.
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Gob Hobblin: Sanctimonious, subtly racist, vaguely misogynist, somehow says something while at the same time saying...nothing, really, at all....

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Postby Otakon 08 Ikari » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:34 pm

Joseph the PRPD wrote:When I first thought of the MP Evangelions having possible souls...

The first thing that came to mind was...<no>

Mentally Disabled Children with the Urge to Kill.


The images you gave me..I dare not type but made many a lawl.


I still believe they are just Kaworu copies
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Postby Reichu » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:53 pm

Otakon 08 Ikari wrote:I still believe they are just Kaworu copies

- Ritsuko says souls can't be copied.
- Seele tells Kaworu that Adam's soul "exists solely in you".
- Unless there is actual reason to doubt either of these tidbits, we can conclude that "Kaworu (Adam) copies" is not the right answer.
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Postby Oedipusfoot » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:52 pm

Are there bodies in the Dummy Plug entry plugs?

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Postby thewayneiac » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:16 pm

Oedipusfoot wrote:Are there bodies in the Dummy Plug entry plugs?


No. When Ritsuko destroys the tank Reis, her controller has a Rei list that starts with Rei 4. Thus, only 3 are missing from the tank: one throttled, one self-destructed, and one current. Therefore, the Dummy Plugs can't have Rei clones physically inside them, as no more Reis are missing from the tank. By inference, the same is no doubt true of the Kaworu plugs as well.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:13 pm

Good point, although that's dependent on how the clones in the tank were numbered. If Rei 1 was numberless, and Rei 2 being the first proper clone was "Rei 00", then the next number would be "Rei 01" (aka Rei 3) and the final two, "Rei 02" and "Rei 03" would be the ones in the dummy plugs for Eva-01 and Eva-02. I admit that this is rather convoluted, so it's likely that your answer- the simpler one- may be right.
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