A remake or a sequel?

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby COACH » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:19 pm

We already know that the blood on the moon is from Second Impact. At least, that's what it was in the storyboards.
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Postby TeenGrizzly » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:22 pm

Anno wouldn't use a gimmick like ambiguity of it being a sequel or not simply to generate hype and it is definitely nothing more than a gimmick if it isn't a sequel. But I honestly think I'm on the right track as far as the 2001 similarities go. And there's so much we have left unanswered from the show. If it isn't a sequel, we're left dangling with nothing. I feel like everyone against it being a sequel is so because they're offended by the original sequel theorists. You just don't want it to be just so you can be right I feel. I'll watch 2.0 again to get my facts straight, but really you can't deny that there's evidence to a sequel through anno's cuts and shots as well as symbolism at least. But also, the blood stain on the moon thing I feel is still unresolved because it was in the CUT storyboards which may have been cut for continuity and not just length or something similar. Plus why would anno go out of his way to give it aspects of a sequel? plus in my opinion the only real hole in sequelism is the disconnect between EoE and 1.0. But really we know very little of the capabilities of FAR and the contents of the dead sea scrolls. Since the 2001 aliens could manipulate time and space, I assume that FAR has similar abilities.plus the dragged blood stain is silly. Why would they drag it across the moons surface instead of just plopping it in the whole via space ship. Tell me how the sequel theory seems legitimately silly without saying it's lame or stupid.

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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:33 pm

Didn't we *just* have this thread?

viewtopic.php?t=10973

I know Grizzly wasn't there for it, but maybe he can read it over anyway, since people are going to bring up a lot of the exact same stuff in opposition to him.

(BTW, the FAR went extinct to provide souls for the Seeds' Chambers of Guf.)
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Postby Warren Peace » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:04 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Yeah. The scene's virtually unchanged from its NGE incarnation, although it's kind of awkwardly jammed in right after Shinji notices Rei not swimming.


I think it would have been a good idea to position the sequence as a prologue at the beginning of You Are (Not) Alone (like the first Mari sequence is in 2.X).

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Postby Sachi » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:15 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Didn't we *just* have this thread?

There's probably multiple Sequelism threads. Shall we getting around to merging them all together?

View Original PostTeenGrizzly wrote:Anno wouldn't use a gimmick like ambiguity of it being a sequel or not simply to generate hype and it is definitely nothing more than a gimmick if it isn't a sequel.

Plus why would anno go out of his way to give it aspects of a sequel?

Anno pays several allusions back to the original series without making any point of NTE being sequential to NGE. I wouldn't doubt that the details Sequelists are citing as evidence of Sequel Theory are simply NGE references; a fun detail that amuses the old fans, but is completely new to the new fans and simply an interesting detail to them.

And there's so much we have left unanswered from the show. If it isn't a sequel, we're left dangling with nothing.

That was one of the beauties of the original. Besides, I think the only big mystery left by the show is: "what are they going to do now?" Both endings leave it unclear as to the paths the characters will make afterward, but that's not really something that needs to be explained by the creators.

But also, the blood stain on the moon thing I feel is still unresolved because it was in the CUT storyboards which may have been cut for continuity and not just length or something similar.

The point people are making with the storyboards is that the Moon explanation was seriously considered, and would have been in the story had someone not changed their mind. The fact that it was so strongly considered negates that evidence that they planned for the Moon's blood stain to be indication of them planning a sequel all along.

plus the dragged blood stain is silly. Why would they drag it across the moons surface instead of just plopping it in the whole via space ship.Tell me how the sequel theory seems legitimately silly without saying it's lame or stupid.

Nobody has suggested that the FAR are the ones that dragged the giant across the moon. Like Reichu said, the FAR have been long extinct.

You should try reading through all of the threads pertaining to Sequel Theory. All of the Anti-Sequelists have laid down pretty solid arguments. If you have any further points to make after that we can continue discussing.

EDIT: Here's a list of all Sequel Theory threads:

viewtopic.php?t=5955
viewtopic.php?t=4369 <--- Primary thread, though unfortunately it had to be locked.
viewtopic.php?t=9474 <--- Within the same vein.
viewtopic.php?t=9716 <--- Alternate theory.
viewtopic.php?t=10973
Last edited by Sachi on Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby COACH » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:19 pm

View Original PostTeenGrizzly wrote:But also, the blood stain on the moon thing I feel is still unresolved because it was in the CUT storyboards which may have been cut for continuity and not just length or something similar.

Tons of stuff gets left on the cutting room floor when a movie is made. I think it was just cut for time. I highly doubt it was because Anno said, "Oh yeah, this blood stain is supposed to be from The End of Evangelion. Why did I put this crap in the storyboard?"

Hasn't Reichu or somebody already shown that the blood stains are completely different in size?
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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:26 pm

View Original PostCOACH wrote:"Oh yeah, this blood stain is supposed to be from The End of Evangelion. Why did I put this crap in the storyboard?"

:lol:

Hasn't Reichu or somebody already shown that the blood stains are completely different in size?

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=440163#440163
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Postby COACH » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:44 pm

I think the fact that there's no spot visible at all in that last shot says a lot.
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Postby Reichu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:01 pm

View Original PostCOACH wrote:I think the fact that there's no spot visible at all in that last shot says a lot.

What I really want to know is how all the people who make so much of a fuss over the blood on the moon totally fail to notice* that it's not visible in distance shots. Pacefalm.

*Alternatively, they do notice it, but they just disregard it and never mention it in arguments because it doesn't fit want they want to believe.
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Postby TeenGrizzly » Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:48 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:What I really want to know is how all the people who make so much of a fuss over the blood on the moon totally fail to notice* that it's not visible in distance shots. Pacefalm.

*Alternatively, they do notice it, but they just disregard it and never mention it in arguments because it doesn't fit want they want to believe.


The moon rotates.

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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:00 am

View Original PostTeenGrizzly wrote:The moon rotates.

Sure does, but it's tidally locked with Earth so that we always see the same side.

We also see in both movies that Tabgha Base in on the side of the Moon that faces Earth (recall how Earth is visible in the Moon scenes) -- which makes sense, since it's in Mare Tranquilitatis -- therefore if you can't see the blood stain here:

Image

...it's too small to see.
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Postby COACH » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:07 am

Yep, and the stain was quite visible in EoE. And it was more like a big puddle than a straight line. At least, that's how it looks in that screencap in the linked thread.
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Postby Azathoth » Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:15 am

View Original PostCOACH wrote:At least, that's how it looks in that screencap in the linked thread.


That cap is from the beginning of the shot - as Rei falls, she kind of twists away from the moon and the bloodstain becomes more like a line. But it's still a massively bigger line than we see in NME.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:13 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:That cap is from the beginning of the shot - as Rei falls, she kind of twists away from the moon and the bloodstain becomes more like a line. But it's still a massively bigger line than we see in NME.

Oh, come on, dude. The only difference between that cap and the last frame in the shot is that the stain is a little thicker in the last frame. How is that "more like a line"? :p
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Postby COACH » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:14 pm

I'm talking about cap #2 anyway, which shows the end result.
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Postby TheFriskyIan » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:06 pm

What about the white outline of a supposed crucified MP Eva on that one hill? You guys just keep bringing up the blood splattered moon.

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Postby TeenGrizzly » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:36 pm

That too. It couldn't have been anything other than something left over from EoE. Unless it was the moon giant which I suspect is Lilith anyway. It couldn't have been an angel because the 3rd was at Bethany base and sachiel attacked after we saw it. And Adams or Adam and Lilith wouldn't fit into the chronology. And as a sidenote: from going frame by frame on the after credits ending, kaworus lance bears a heavy resemblance to a Longinus lance which I believe may be the other lance we never saw during the show and may be used as a backup to contain the moon giant which likely makes it Lilith. That and it's mask is or was identical before they began adapting it to the mark 6 armor

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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:43 pm

View Original PostTheFriskyIan wrote:What about the white outline of a supposed crucified MP Eva on that one hill?

According to 1.0 Complete Records Collection, the shot with the white outline is "post-Second Impact scenery". The supposed "MP Eva" link is just more bologna on the sandwich. A humanoid something washed up on the shore in the wake of 2I and was taken away. The outline is for our benefit, of course.

View Original PostTeenGrizzly wrote:Unless it was the moon giant which I suspect is Lilith anyway.

Just FYI, the thing on the Moon has dark gray skin (exposed in 2.0). The white was a "rubber cover" according to Sadamoto's notes.

kaworus lance bears a heavy resemblance to a Longinus lance which I believe may be the other lance we never saw during the show (snip)

The other one was destroyed at First Impact. The new continuity has at least four Spears floating around, so... yeah.

That and it's mask is or was identical before they began adapting it to the mark 6 armor

It is similar, but not the same.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:54 am

Split from here by Ornette's suggestion.

View Original Postqu4d wrote:And Evangelion is simple?

At least there aren't parallel world and people travelling between them.
View Original Postqu4d wrote:And well yeah... it would be "simple", but it still doesnt make any sense. How would this be supposed to work?!

Who knows, fiction knows no limit like Retake showed; maybe some unknown events after EoE caused the creation of a similar but slightly different world, or maybe it's something else, I'm not the writer; I just get the feeling that a sequel would be less bizarre as long as there's some linearity in the events.
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Postby qu4d » Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:13 am

People travelling between parallel worlds? I don't even get how got that idea... and a cycle would be linear, in a special way.

And of course we are no writers, but this still is no explanation. You say it would be simple, but you don't even have a single idea what would be simple? x_X


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