Misato & Shinji in Episode 23'

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Misato & Shinji in Episode 23'

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Postby Silent Lightning » Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:31 pm

In the Big Irony Bomb scene, what evidence is there actually to suggest that Misato is "putting the moves" on Shinji like she once said? Am I missing something here?
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Re: Misato & Shinji in Episode 23'

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Postby Shin-seiki » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:09 pm

Silent Lightning wrote:In the Big Irony Bomb scene, what evidence is there actually to suggest that Misato is "putting the moves" on Shinji like she once said? Am I missing something here?
Somebody educate me on this, please...
Briefly, aside from the scene itself, which sure as hell looks to me like she entered his room with something other than innocent intent (thus the awkward chagrin with which she hastily retreats from the room), there is the way the scene is referenced in #25 (in 'the Case of Misato Katsuragi'), and also, there is the Newtype Filmbook 'Checkpoint' for the #23 scene which states that "Misato was apparently offering her body to Shinji here".

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Postby CorporalChaos » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:30 pm

And you can't forget the 'umbrella' as phallic symbol when Misato sits down next to Shinji. I don't have the pictures, will someone else provide it for future reference?
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Postby Action_Bastard » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:14 pm

I always that it was a "motherly" thing. Like when a son or daughter is upset and his/her mother comes in to check up on him/her and sits next to him/her on the bed; like that. I personally don't think she was trying to put the moves on him, just went in to check up on him.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:18 pm

Action_Bastard wrote:I always that it was a "motherly" thing.


I have to say I agree. The support for the BIB being here is extra-textual -- and setting it off at that point robs the "adult kiss" scene from EoE of all value.
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Postby thewayneiac » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:36 pm

Shinji's reaction, "Misato! No!" tells us what he thinks she was up to, as does his comment in ep. 24 to Kaworu that he doesn't want to go home. In EOE he tells the comatose Asuka that he's now afraid of Rei and Misato. Well, we know why he's afraid of Rei, but I wonder why he's afraid of Misato........

Also, in ep. 25 they flash back to the ep. 23 scene in question during the sequence where the other characters are telling her what a dirty slut she is. What more evidence do you need than that?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:43 pm

Don't forget that in the DC version of the scene compared to the On air version, when Misato sits down, Shinji's chair in the background looks like a phallic symbol. (There was a topic on this; I can't remember the title at the moment.)

Personally, I see the bit in episode 23 explains not only Misato's actions in EoE but also EoTV (when we get the flashback TO 23).
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Postby NAveryW » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:27 pm

CorporalChaos wrote:And you can't forget the 'umbrella' as phallic symbol when Misato sits down next to Shinji. I don't have the pictures, will someone else provide it for future reference?
It's a chair, not an umbrella.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:50 pm

I think there definately is a sexual undertone to Misato's actions but it's not something she's consciously expressing. It's just that she only knows how to deal with men in any form if it somehow relates to sex and lesser forms of physical affection which she mistakenly conflates with love.

Shinji's is rather extreme, certainly, but I don't think he's bluntly aware of what's in the back of her mind here. Rather it's probably a combination of just wanting to be left alone and feeling intense shame at his own inability to comfort her in ep 21 under similar circumstances. His fear of Misato likely stems from her 'the right to survive' rant she gives him after he kills Kaworu as well as just generally not feeling like the apartment is a home anymore with all the shit that has gone down.

On a side note, why in the world didn't Misato exploit Kaworu's death to get Shinji motivated in EOE? I believe something like "If you're just going to give up now then you killed Kaworu for nothing!" would cut right through his funk and force him to at least acknowledge her presence.
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Postby Lucretius » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:15 pm

I agree pretty much 100%, although apparently the Newtype film book says something about Misato offering Shinji her body, IIRC. Could somebody supply the relevant passage, maybe?

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Postby Zerogoki » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:04 pm

SSD wrote:Don't forget that in the DC version of the scene compared to the On air version, when Misato sits down, Shinji's chair in the background looks like a phallic symbol. (There was a topic on this; I can't remember the title at the moment.)

It's here, although the pictures aren't working right now as evacommentary seems to have gone kaput...

For me, the idea that Misato was attempting the down and dirty was pretty clear, although admittedly this was suggested via a number of hints that on their own are quite subtle. Most of these have been mentioned already: Shinji being scared of Misato and not wanting to go home in the following episodes, the flashback during instrumentality, etc.

However, the language used also seemed to me to be suggesting it, although to be fair I've been working from the subs rather than actually knowing Japanese. I believe that her saying "This is all I can do for you right now", although it could mean a simple cuddle or consoling hand on the shoulder, when considered with the other hints mentioned above makes it pretty clear what Misato is trying to do...
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Postby V » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:18 pm

frankly, I don't see it
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Postby AyrYntake » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:20 pm

Neither do I. The DC version in fact looks considerably less phallic than the original Ep23.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:30 pm

I blocked all these

Shinji:
Stop it, Misato!

Misato:
Sometimes, I lose all hope for myself! I hate it!

IBUKI:
Filth, you're so dirty.

RITSUKO:
You're pathetic.

Asuka:
Disgusting! You're just foul!
That's what you call a mature relationship?! You make me puke!


together as "everyone hate the Misato", with Shinji's line being a convenient bit that could be lifted entire.
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Postby NAveryW » Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:53 pm

AyrYntake wrote:Neither do I. The DC version in fact looks considerably less phallic than the original Ep23.
As I believe it was Reichu who mentioned, it looks less like a naked phallus and more like a phallus wearing a condom.
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Postby Dartz » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:09 pm

I believe it was Freud what said:
Sometimes a Cigar is just a Cigar
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Postby The Bastard King » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:40 pm

Freud said that? That goes against everything Freud said!

To remain on topic, Misato was trying to pull the moves on Shinji because it's emotionally confusing for everyone involved (including those watching) and Anno wanted to get that feeling across to the audience. I don't see why everyone always tries to explain this scene in the context of the episode without taking into account Anno himself.

Also, this "Misato x Shinji?" topic races my total number of dimes to almost enough to buy a snack.
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Postby Dartz » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:10 pm

Somebody said it....

I checked it anyway, and it's listed as unsourced on Wikiquote.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:28 pm

I think Jung was the one who made the comment about the cigar. Freud got all pissed about it at the very least, I remember.

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Postby NemZ » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:18 pm

The Bastard King wrote:I don't see why everyone always tries to explain this scene in the context of the episode without taking into account Anno himself.


Because I don't subscribe the the primacy of the author's intent when analyzing... well, pretty much anything?
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