Lilith & Her Mask
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- Action_Bastard
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EDIT: Oh yes, and the scars across the chest still imply some kind of surgery. Since it's right where the Yamashita version shows what appears to be a removed core, that still probably figures in somewhere.
Well, they never removed the core from Shamshel, so that's probably were they got the core for the S2 experiments.
NAveryW wrote:EDIT: Oh yes, and I'm guessing that the umbilical cord would have been left over from Unit 01's birth, based on stuff from the original series. Just a guess. It doesn't really matter now that the umbilical cord idea was never used.
But the umbilical cord is going from Lilith's navel towards the lump on the ground (placenta?), so wouldn't that mean that it was Lilith who was born? (Even though it wasn't used, I'd say it's worthy of consideration. They might have talked about having this Lilith being born from something else, and the drafts could reflect their thoughts on how to show that it's not the same Lilith as in the TV series -- then they went with just a different mask. It's a possibility.)
Or it could just be that they pulled out her intestines.
I just noticed that in the Okama drawings (though you can't really tell in A) Lilith's hands and armpits are SCREWED into the cross instead of nailed. I like that.
Sceleris: Yes, I thought of that shortly after I got offline. I like to think that the umbilical cord would be connected to Unit 01's navel as well, as that would fit in with the way Unit 01 was formed in Old Century New Century Evangelion.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure the hands are just nailed to the cross in 1.01, though it's impossible to tell for sure due to the questionable quality of the transfer. However, the eyes do appear to be screwed in.
Sceleris: Yes, I thought of that shortly after I got offline. I like to think that the umbilical cord would be connected to Unit 01's navel as well, as that would fit in with the way Unit 01 was formed in Old Century New Century Evangelion.
EDIT: I'm pretty sure the hands are just nailed to the cross in 1.01, though it's impossible to tell for sure due to the questionable quality of the transfer. However, the eyes do appear to be screwed in.
Last edited by NAveryW on Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sceleris wrote:But the umbilical cord is going from Lilith's navel towards the lump on the ground (placenta?)
I had the same thought, oddly enough, but I wasn't all too sure what to make of it...
Incidentally, the "umbilical cord" looks distinctly artificial to me in Yamashita's version, like they shoved a hose in there and it's since developed a leak.
NAveryW wrote:Oh yes, and the scars across the chest still imply some kind of surgery. Since it's right where the Yamashita version shows what appears to be a removed core, that still probably figures in somewhere.
The scar in the final goes across the pectorals and sternum, and is altogether ABOVE the "nuclear" region.
http://www.evageeks.org/images/screens/eva1-01_C1394_composite.jpg
If Lilith had a core, it would be right beneath the Spear. Unless Anno managed to screw it up despite Yamashita getting it right. (And they have Rei return to Lilith via the solar plexus in EoE, too.)
Jinroh wrote:It's not like Lilith ever had a face in the first place...
The jury's still out on this one. Sorry. ;p
Maybe we'll get lucky and it'll turn out to be full of eyeballs after all. BTW, in case anyone missed it, Okama has seven eyes hanging out from beneath the mask.
NAveryW wrote:I like to think that the umbilical cord would be connected to Unit 01's navel as well, as that would fit in with the way Unit 01 was formed in *******************.
It would? Look at that image again and tell me how, if you would...
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- UrsusArctos
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Lilith is as freaky as hell in Okama's work. Edit: Not only does it look like she has eyes in her armpits (Where the screws go) but it looks like she was forming eyes on her upper chest! Those little bulges next to the eyeballs hanging out are about the same shape and size...
As for Anno screwing up on the location of the S2 engine, maybe he decided to change it in Rebuild? I remember the ghostly images in the 2.0 trailer having what looked like a core high up, at the base of the neck.
I thought normal Eva-02's eye plating could move to expose the real eyes inside. It looked like that in Episodes 08 and 22 (With the Eva's face in shadow). Dunno if EGK could do the same- from what I remember, the eyes glowed but the plating never moved to expose the eyes in EoE.
As for Anno screwing up on the location of the S2 engine, maybe he decided to change it in Rebuild? I remember the ghostly images in the 2.0 trailer having what looked like a core high up, at the base of the neck.
I thought normal Eva-02's eye plating could move to expose the real eyes inside. It looked like that in Episodes 08 and 22 (With the Eva's face in shadow). Dunno if EGK could do the same- from what I remember, the eyes glowed but the plating never moved to expose the eyes in EoE.
Last edited by UrsusArctos on Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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UrsusArctos wrote:As for Anno screwing up on the location of the S2 engine, maybe he decided to change it in Rebuild? I remember the ghostly images in the 2.0 trailer having what looked like a core high up, at the base of the neck.
Are we talking about S2 engines, cores, or both...?
Dunno if EGK could do the same- from what I remember, the eyes glowed but the plating never moved to expose the eyes in EoE.
You remember correctly; the silly gimmick was removed.
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Unit 01 grew out of Lilith's legs/crotch until they were the same size and connected at the same place. When Unit 01 was finished growing, it'd probably be impossible to tell which grew from which just by looking.Reichu wrote:It would? Look at that image again and tell me how, if you would...
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Reichu wrote:Are we talking about S2 engines, cores, or both...?
When cores can shift around, why not S2 engines?
Having a placenta and an umbilical cord attached to Lilith's belly button is bizarre. An umbilical cord attaches to the navel of the foetus, not the mother. During birth, the mother's placenta gets ripped out, with the umbilical cord connecting it to the baby until it's cut, or dries up and breaks on its own. To have it go to Lilith's navel in those production drawings would mean that something gave birth to Lilith, not the other way around. You'd expect a malformed Sho to be trailing an umbilical cord and placenta, not Lilith.
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Another thing worth noting about those drawings is that Lilith isn't bleeding in that ... stereotypically Lilith sort of way, but they ended up going back to that in the end. It seems that whatever idea they were playing around with that involved an umbilical cord, etc., probably no longer applies. But it sure makes one wonder, eh?
There's some Lilith in the groundwork book, at well, which I'll try to get scanned in.
There's some Lilith in the groundwork book, at well, which I'll try to get scanned in.
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Sailor Star Dust wrote:Lilith's face being nothing but eyeballs is certainly creepy. I'm almost hoping it'll be used at some point in a later film just for a WTF factor.
but shirley you don't mean....
Another thing worth noting about those drawings is that Lilith isn't bleeding in that ... stereotypically Lilith sort of way
you mean bleeding from having the mask forced onto her face, right?
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V wrote:you mean bleeding from having the mask forced onto her face, right?
No, I mean the trail of blood that lets us make tampon jokes once she grows her legs back.
Bleeding due to the mask would have looked a little something like this (production drawings for NGE, scanned from Newtype 100%):
http://www.evageeks.org/images/production/newtype100pc_145_lilith.gif
Yet another omitted detail, of course. One interesting thing to point out is that the blood here is dark, i.e. it was probably "normal" blood. [The arrow pointing to it in the lower drawing says "Blood", BTW.] Contrast this to the series, where they eventually decided to make Lilith's blood all LCL (as opposed to her oozing LCL from her womb and otherwise having normal blood, or something).
[EDIT: After all these years, I've only just noticed the little "motion" lines around some of Lilith's mini-legs. Very interesting......]
Also, V, upload those images onto a personal account or I'll have to remove them within the next couple of days. (Image Guidelines - Item D. Hotlinking.)
Ursus wrote:When cores can shift around, why not S2 engines?
BUT WHY WOULD LILITH HAVE ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE AND HOW COME HER BODY IS STILL INTACT AT ALL IN REBUILD AND OH CRAP MY CAPS LOCK BUTTON IS STUCK.
Disregard that, please.
To have it go to Lilith's navel in those production drawings would mean that something gave birth to Lilith, not the other way around.
Quite. (Sceleris made points to the same effect, as well.)
You'd expect a malformed Sho to be trailing an umbilical cord and placenta, not Lilith.
Rather, I'd expect that Nerv would be fully capable of properly removing and disposing of umbilical cords and placentas.
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I was thinking that perhaps Lilith's umbilical cord was connected to the black moon, and the black moon acted as a sort of womb. Remember in rebuild when Shinji and Misato were descending into the EE layer or something, and there was that big red vein-y bit.
Or perhaps the FAR birthed Lilith, chucked her in a shell and sent her off to populate a planet.
Or perhaps the FAR birthed Lilith, chucked her in a shell and sent her off to populate a planet.
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- UrsusArctos
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Perhaps, perhaps not. The black moon was meant to be Lilith's egg in the original series and is labeled as such on-screen when it is exposed. Creatures born from an egg do not have a single umbilical cord but rather form a network of blood vessels throughout the inside of the egg which they use to gather nutrients (and which is reabsorbed into the developing body). Lilith had no navel in her old incarnation or in her final form in Rebuild, which fits. (By rights, Adam shouldn't have a navel and from the way Sho came out of Lilith, neither should she.)
If anything that comes from an egg in the series has a placenta and umbilical cord, I'd say someone messed up in the biology department.
OR- The FAR and their creations are very strange.
If anything that comes from an egg in the series has a placenta and umbilical cord, I'd say someone messed up in the biology department.
OR- The FAR and their creations are very strange.
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The main point of idiocy is for the smart to have their lulz. Without human idiocy, trolling would not exist, and that's uncool, since a large part of my entertainment consists of mocking the absurdity and dumbassery of the world, especially the Internet.-MaggotMaster
Reichu wrote:Rather, I'd expect that Nerv would be fully capable of properly removing and disposing of umbilical cords and placentas.
Maybe they (the writers) had thought of going somewhere with that. There is a lot of mystic belief regarding the placenta after all.
Quoting Encyclopedia Britannica: "Traditional Japanese practices at childbirth, for example, required that when a girl was born, the placenta be buried in the ground outside the entrance to the dwelling to insure that the girl, when mature, marry in normal fashion and leave the family. When a boy was born, the placenta was buried inside the house to ensure that he remain at home when mature."
Quoting Wikipedia: "In Ukraine, Transylvania, and Japan, interaction with a disposed placenta is thought to influence the parents' future fertility."
Quoting random site: "In ancient Japan, one of the most treasured medicines was found to contain placenta and its therapeutic effects were very potent for strengthening the body, relieving fatigue, slimming and other chronic diseases. In the Japanese tradition, the placenta and umbilical cord from childbirth were used as offering on the altar. When the baby was suffering from any acute illness, the placenta and umbilical cord would be used as medication."
Not entirely relevant (especially since it's not in the movie), I know, but maybe worth throwing out there.
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Sceleris wrote:Placenta
Also it tastes great with chips...
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-Gendo's final silenced line to Ritsuko was "I'm going to shoot you now."
-Nagisa Kaworu kills a kitten every time you masturbate.
-Kaji's first and last name was Kaji
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