Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby NemZ » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:34 pm

Rhyno wrote:Along with the many other things you mentioned, this is a big reason I don't see romance in their deep relationship. There is genuine affection for one another but not necessarily the physical attraction. It's like a deep friendship
.

Depends how you look at it. I see the various Reis as separate people despite being parts of the whole. Any chance of a more romantic relationship ending with Rei 2's death. She may still be in 3.0 and GNR, but they aren't quite her, either.
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Postby Lucretius » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:48 pm

NemZ wrote:Ultimately this attempt to undermine the relationship via squick is rather easy to resolve, regardless how much random crap you pull out. Let's just go ahead and skip all the accustations and flat-out suggest that Shinji is a submissive masochistic bicurious necro/bestio/pedio/filiophilic insestual rishathrist pre-rapist with an appreciative eye for bountiful feminine accessories. Okay?

Here's the thing: Rei is so outside the norm that all these categories seem kinda meaningless. Rei is just Rei.

Important to note, however, is that Shinji is still disturbed to learn about even a smidgen of this. Does he just need time to absorb this information and to grieve for Rei2, or is he genuinely going to make this a deal-breaker? I say the former, based upon naked straddling and 'girlfriend pillow' postures employed in 26'.



Wait, hold on. Do you really think that he's going to choose Rei after the end credits roll, assuming that she reembodies? The naked straddling was a metaphor for Instrumentality, and the pillow pose could just as well be a motherly gesture.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:59 pm

Lucretius wrote:Wait, hold on. Do you really think that he's going to choose Rei after the end credits roll, assuming that she reembodies?


Hadn't crossed my mind, actually. Hmm.

I don't think Shinji should be 'choosing' anyone at the moment, but if she did indeed reincorporate I think he would be willing to get to know this Rei (up to 4 or 5 now?) rather than continue to avoid her as he has been since 23. At soem point he's going to have to deal with Rei2's death though, as well as the fact thikxnds Lilith ix not the Rei he knew.
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Postby Chrad » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:04 am

Sailor Star Dust wrote:
Shinji thanking Rei while holding her hand...beautiful scene, I love it.


Me too. It's perfect. The whole final stretch as Shinji rejects instrumentality is, actually.

I agree with what you said. Rei is a perfect guardian and guide for Shinji.

Looking inside Rei's head would be pretty strange. I think from the one time we do see this it illustrates what a tangled mess of confusion she is constantly struggling with.

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Postby Lucretius » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:08 am

NemZ wrote:
Lucretius wrote:Wait, hold on. Do you really think that he's going to choose Rei after the end credits roll, assuming that she reembodies?


Hadn't crossed my mind, actually. Hmm.

I don't think Shinji should be 'choosing' anyone at the moment, but if she did indeed reincorporate I think he would be willing to get to know this Rei (up to 4 or 5 now?) rather than continue to avoid her as he has been since 23. At soem point he's going to have to deal with Rei2's death though, as well as the fact thikxnds Lilith ix not the Rei he knew.


I get the impression that Rei isn't going to reincorporate though. The visual parallel with episode 1 suggests that he's seeing Rei for the last time. Plus, there's the "What are the two of you within my heart?" bit.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby Chrad » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:32 am

That's the impression I got as well: Rei and Kaworu will only continue to exist in Shinji's heart.

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Postby Shin-seiki » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:07 am

Rei is an Angel in the special sense that she is a PWM being. How could she re-embody out of LCL when she was never made of LCL in the first place?

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Postby AyrYntake » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:39 am

Hmm. I somehow have the feeling that, if Shinji so wished, he could "create" Rei out of his thoughts and emotions in the last vestiges of Instrumentality. Same goes for Kaworu.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:56 pm

That's the impression I got as well: Rei and Kaworu will only continue to exist in Shinji's heart.


Well, I got the feeling that, even though Shinji won't see them again, they'll still persevere in some spirit form watching over humanity. No real basis for it, of course.

Rei is an Angel in the special sense that she is a PWM being. How could she re-embody out of LCL when she was never made of LCL in the first place?


The same way she was about to eat LCL-based food, and be a clone of Yui, etc. despite being a PWM being. Just stil Rei's soul in some LCL, have her project an AT field, and BOOM! LCL-based Rei.

Hmm. I somehow have the feeling that, if Shinji so wished, he could "create" Rei out of his thoughts and emotions in the last vestiges of Instrumentality. Same goes for Kaworu.


That would be nice, if so, but it looks like they're never returning to human form. And if they were, they'd have to imagine themselves in their heart like everyone else.

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Postby AyrYntake » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:10 pm

About Rei and Kaworu...their souls are still there somewhere, though where exactly I can't say. I think they are probably going to be little red dots. :toothy:
That, or they can be put into LCL and reincarnate themselves. Which would be a nice consolation for all those Rei fans out there.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:31 pm

Corollary: If all the Angels' souls are still around, too, the other humans are in for some fun. We already 'know' from Lilith and Rei that there's some kind of PWN<-->LCL conversion method, and if all humans have been given permission to return to their original forms (which they have) and blah blah blah... Oh damn, I smell a fanfic! [/gratuitously off-topic]
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Lucretius » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:32 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:Rei is an Angel in the special sense that she is a PWM being. How could she re-embody out of LCL when she was never made of LCL in the first place?


Good point. That would explain why she appears only as a disembodied spirit at the end.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

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Postby AyrYntake » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:47 pm

Reichu wrote:Corollary: If all the Angels' souls are still around, too, the other humans are in for some fun.

Okay, I guess I was wrong then. We can't have Sachiels and Zeruels coming back to smash humanity all over again can we?

Also:
Reichu wrote:PWN<-->LCL conversion method

I know that was a typo, but lol'd anyway. :boingy:
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Postby Formless One » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:54 pm

Corollary: If all the Angels' souls are still around, too, the other humans are in for some fun.

<snip>

Oh damn, I smell a fanfic! [/gratuitously off-topic]

Wasn't that already the baisis for our roleplaying game? I know it hasn't had much use lately, but certainly you couldn't have forgotten about that? :wink:
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Postby NemZ » Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:03 pm

Lucretius wrote:I get the impression that Rei isn't going to reincorporate though


Agreed, which is why it hadn't crossed my mind.

Aura Twilight wrote:Well, I got the feeling that, even though Shinji won't see them again, they'll still persevere in some spirit form watching over humanity. No real basis for it, of course.


I think the lilith/adam hybrid being that looks a lot like Rei exists outside of the normal flow of time following 3I. No basis? Don't forget the first bookend and her apperance in Shinji's private hell.
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Postby AyrYntake » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:29 am

So we're to assume Rei is at most a "ghost" now?
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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:55 am

At the end, as at the beginning, yes, sorta -- Rei has become something operating outside of the limitations of the material.
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Re: Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby ROOK13 » Fri Apr 10, 2020 1:01 am

I would love to see NGE Shinji and Rei's romance,but will not withstand eoe Shinji with Rei. I agree with Formless one,eoe Shinji is a psychopath/sociopath. :irked:
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Re: Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby Blockio » Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:10 pm

The characterization of every character is pretty consistent between NGE and EoE
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Re: Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:36 pm

For me the fundamental point of Rei's character is that she is her own person, NOT Yui or even Lillith.
Not to mention that her arc and introspection scenes go into dissecting the whole environment vs. nature vs. choices thing, and that's hardly going to be ended with "Actually this has a simple answer all is inborn."

The whole beauty or crux of the whole thing is that though she has only a borrowed, faded, not-quite existence where nothing is her own there's still a person in there and she's alone and in pain, but also gets to have a few scattered moments of genuine warmth and connection amid the bleak surroundings mostly with Shinji but also a lil bit with Touji for example.
In EoE it's pretty much outright stated that she represents "the hope that people can understand each other."

People don't magically recognize ppl they share genes with; Real Life People have absolutely boinked their siblings and even parents without noticing anything out of the ordinary because they did not know they were related. Genes are not magic.

The only relation Rei has with Yui is like that of a sperm or egg donor - they might look alike and share some little quirks and basic temperament, but all this is then molded by the environment and that couldn't have been more different.
Yui's still around - she's in EVA 01. And in several episodes she makes it very clear that she wants Shinji to be piloting it while Rei is consistently the one person who doesn't guilt trip him about considering leaving (in 2.0 this is more explicit as she outright says she'll do it so he can quit and doesn't have to)
Heck even the three clones have somewhat different personalities.

Yes, she protects him, but that's not because of Genetic Mind Control (in my opinion THIS is what would show you have no grasp of her character), but at first simply because it's her job,- she has some interest because he protected her in ep 1 and because he's Gendo's kid, but that's it. To begin with she doesn't consider putting herself in danger to be such a big deal because Gendo has a dozen more of her in the basement and no one would even notice if she were swapped out (or so she thinks) ... by episode 23 she clearly DID care if Armisael absorbes her or not and told them to get out, but sacrificed herself anyways despite Misato telling her to stop because she wanted to protect Shinji & everyone else.
It's only after he rescues her from the melting plug that she cares about him in particular, once she has the pretty logical reason that he's made a point to be nice to her without any ostensible ulterior motive.


Also this tendency to stuff her in the "sister" box strikes me as something only only children could think of.
A sibling bond is a whole lot more specific than "You like this person but you don't want to boink her", They're not even on first name basis.
They could develop something like a sibling bond if they had the information and maybe a few extra years but they don're remotely come close to it in canon.
Honestly Asuka is closer to this (for all that she's still pretty far) since they live in the same household and use each other's first names and have the same parental figures (Misato & Kaji)
The closest Shinji & Rei come through this is through Gendo who actually Raised Rei and once in a while visited Shinji until three years prior, with that semi-jealously he has there sometimes before he understands the position he's in.

The commentary in the elevator scene is clearly Shinji blurting out something based on an unconscious memory of Yui that is only now occurring to him after he's spent a while piloting EVA 01.
There's not necessarily anything particularly "maternal" about Rei's towel wringing (she doesn't keep her personal space particularly clean at all; At one point Shinji tidies it up for her), Yui could have wrung out her towel a bajillion different ways and they'd still remind Shinji of her.
Then, of course, he fumbles it into something resembling a compliment and she blushes but it's more an awkward that positive reaction because she knows that the world will end in half a year and that she'll never have any kids or get married or do anything at all. It's a ridiculous embarrassing suggestion to her that she kinda likes hearing but also reminds her of what's impossible to her.

You don't necessarily have to see it as romantic (though I'd argue that it's very much hinted, I can elaborate if desired but I don't want to detract from my main point which is: ), but what is much more important, and what they certainly are (and this hill I will die on) is comrades and friends.

I mean, in ep 5 Shinji decides that he wants to get to know her 'cause they're the only two people in the awful situation of being pilots, also she's always by herself and he known what that feels like.
After this we see them consistently being nice to each other, interacting on a regular basis & worrying about each other when crap happens; See that scene in ep 22 where Asuka observes them just happily talking to each other and commenting that Shinji's already "back to usual" despite spending a month Liquefied.
As OP points out they get along, are semi-comfortable in each other's presence (since neither is super talkative this requires an actual effort - on the other hand that makes it so they actually talk instead of just being commanded around by a louder person. especially Shinji who has something of a tendency to worry what ppl think of him. )
Had the Bardiel incident not taken place when it did, I think Rei would at very least have ended up absorbed into Shinji's friend group, again she was having some interactions with Touji to the point that Hikari though he had a thing for her (Don't worry Hikki she's absolutely not his type XD) and hesitates enough to shoot at EVA 03 for Bardiel to notice & ambush her.
And of course a sad ending to the story doesn't mean that it was all meaningless; It just means that things tragically didn't work out, the reasons why it couldn't weighed out the reasons why it could have, but if the latter were zero if there would be no lost potential, no sadness, no tragedy.

Being a flawed person he doesn't do everything right here and has mistakes & shortcomings coming into play (such as when he's well-too overwhelmed with everything to try talking to her after The Big Reveal - though part of it is that he isn't sure to which extent Rei III is even the same person. ), neither goes out of their way as much as they could etc. young & inexperienced + crappy circumstances galore but that doesn't mean their friendship was completely worthless or corrupt. That happens sometimes, that people are friends. It's not unrealistic or idealistic for there to be lil bit of fleeting genuineness in the world.

tl;Dr: Wether or not they're love interests, they certainly don't have a familial or a "shallow" relationship. They're friends.
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