Depth of Shinji and Rei's relationship

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Postby Enki v.2 » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:34 am

Question: wtf does being an old extraterrestrial have to do with being compatible with another character? This is a "Shinji / Rei - are they close, or could they be" discussion, not a "Rei - is she an alien, or what" discussion. Maybe it's just me, but if I really hit it off with a 4 billion year old alien chick, I wouldn't care much about the 4 billion year old alien bit, and would care moreso about the hit-it-off bit. Actually, it might even be a turn-on.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:12 pm

Enki v.2 wrote:Actually, it might even be a turn-on.


Haven't read much Blue Drop fanfic, I can see.

@Topic
Given that their relationship went on hold after the brash interloper arrived, and got thrown further off by the rather under-rehearsed replacement and clone tank incident, on Shinji's side it never had chance (pace Sadamoto) to deepen.

Like SSD I'm still confused by her 3rd iteration's last minute switching of loyalty from Gendo to Shinji. To Yui, I could understand.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:16 pm

In regards to Rei 3: Exactly, Ojichan. If it were just Yui, it'd make sense but Rei...I still don't get it.

The only thing I can come up with is because she represents two of Shinji's mothers in one (Yui and Lilith in Rei), I guess her maternal instincts won out. :shrug:

Re: Good R/S porn: :lol:
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Postby NemZ » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:44 pm

Rei 3 realized that Gendo was just using her, that her image of him as having some degree of concern for her was a lie, and thus turned on him at the moment when he made it clear that she was nothing but a means to an ends to him. She naturally chose Shinji, the only person she had met who treated her as if she had value simply for being herself, and (if all her memories are intact) a person she knows she has some strong feelings for in return.

Why on earth would she choose Yui? the only times they ever interacted was when Yui gave her weird daydreams in 14 and said DO NOT WANT in 19.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:52 pm

I think Tines meant that Yui choosing Gendo over Shinji has an explanation behind it, but it's harder to figure out Rei's exact motivates.
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Postby BobBQ » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:28 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:Haven't read much Blue Drop fanfic, I can see.

Can't really blame him for that, considering that I've seen a grand total of four apart than my own effort, and three of them were tragically brief oneshots. But perhaps I just haven't looked hard enough.

Returning to topic, is anyone else annoyed by the widespread assumption that a relationship between Rei and Shinji needs to be romantic and/or physical?

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Postby NemZ » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:40 pm

BobBQ wrote:Returning to topic, is anyone else annoyed by the widespread assumption that a relationship between Rei and Shinji needs to be romantic and/or physical?


Needs to be? No. That's just silly.

I think it had potential to become so though, had circumstances beyond the involved parties' control not interfered so thoroughly... and depending on how one interprets EOE, it may have been exactly that for an unknowable length of time in the LCL sea.
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Postby BobBQ » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:49 pm

NemZ wrote:Needs to be? No. That's just silly.

I speak primarily in reference to fanfiction and the like, being the expressions of fan opinion that they are, where the desire to see Rei and Shinji boinking seems to be exponentially more popular than that to see them being good friends, parts of a family or anything other than lovers.

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Postby NemZ » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:50 pm

BobBQ wrote:I speak primarily in reference to fanfiction and the like, being the expressions of fan opinion that they are, where the desire to see Rei and Shinji boinking seems to be exponentially more popular than that to see them being good friends, parts of a family or anything other than lovers.


Quick answer? Because that's what fanfic readers generally want.

Somewhat deeper? Because subtlety is much harder to do well than big dramatic moments.

Meta-answer? 95% of all original works in any given media are crap, and for fanfiction of just the ones that don't suck the percentage comes very near to 100%.
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Postby Rhyno » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:01 am

BobBQ wrote:Returning to topic, is anyone else annoyed by the widespread assumption that a relationship between Rei and Shinji needs to be romantic and/or physical?
In short, yes.

People are free to have their own point of view, but adding romance or physicality to their relationship is, in my opinion, a perversion of an already deep relationship. The Rei character seemed very uninterested in sex.
Rei: I'm sorry, I don't know what to do in situations like this.
Shinji: You could try moving, or something.
Rei: If I'm ordered to, I will.
This pretty much sums up how I think Rei would react in a sexual encounter. I guess I never really saw the alleged sexual attraction Shinji supposedly had for Rei either. For me, adding romance or physicality is unnecessary and is just not present between Shinji and Rei.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Sep 04, 2008 3:46 am

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I think Tines meant that Yui choosing Gendo over Shinji has an explanation behind it, but it's harder to figure out Rei's exact motivates.


No, I meant Rei switching over to Yui's scheme for 3I.

@BobBQ
I was thinking of the tentacle one much reposted on /a/ :devil:

@Topic
On the sex/romance issue -- I see them as the types who would skip straight ahead to "old married couple".
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Postby NemZ » Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:13 am

Mr. Tines wrote:No, I meant Rei switching over to Yui's scheme for 3I.


and why is that more likely?
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Postby Enki v.2 » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:48 am

BobBQ wrote:Returning to topic, is anyone else annoyed by the widespread assumption that a relationship between Rei and Shinji needs to be romantic and/or physical?


I am not annoyed at the idea as such, however I do get annoyed at the proliferation of RiAO WAFF lemons, and such. Rei isn't nonemotional, she's just quiet.

NeMZ wrote:Quick answer? Because that's what fanfic readers generally want.

Somewhat deeper? Because subtlety is much harder to do well than big dramatic moments.

Meta-answer? 95% of all original works in any given media are crap, and for fanfiction of just the ones that don't suck the percentage comes very near to 100%.


Fanfic readers generally want romance, yes. I think an AU with Rei being more vocal and Shinji being Shinji is less of a stretch than one wherein Asuka is nice and non-homocidal and Shinji is someone she can put up with. That said, if you want WAFF, eva should not be your first choice of source material. For the type of romance fic I like (something like ReTake was in doujin form, but much longer and far more screwed up), it's perfect -- and it's quite possible to have Rei and Shinji work out in a very screwed up romantic way and maintain that for long periods.

Somebody wrote: words about Rei & Shinji and "old married couple" stereotypes


QFT. I can just imagine them, I dunno, not even really having sex but handing each other parts of the morning paper, cooking food for each other, finishing each other's sentences, etc. I guess it cues in with the idea of their having a deep non-sexual relationship, but it's closer to how a married couple are when they aren't screwing like rabbits, rather than how a pair of friends with no sexual interest in each other would act, since without the motivator they wouldn't get close enough for those things not to be a factor.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:00 pm

NemZ wrote:
Mr. Tines wrote:No, I meant Rei switching over to Yui's scheme for 3I.


and why is that more likely?


Rei's betrayal comes at the point where Yui is being the focus of a 3I ritual, and when Rei has clearly heard some sort of psychic emanation. Whetehr it's modelling Yui's thought processes or morphic field resonance or whatever, there is scope for a decision based on the different models of 3I being proposed.
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Postby AyrYntake » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:09 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:Like SSD I'm still confused by her 3rd iteration's last minute switching of loyalty from Gendo to Shinji. To Yui, I could understand.

Well, pre-3I it's really a switching of loyalty to Lilith, isn't it? Post-merging, it's probably because the "soul" of Rei II returned to dig up those memories of Shinji in her mind.
Or it could simply be that Rei III was concerned for Shinji all along, but in a different way from Rei II. Rei III saw the big picture and decided that 3I was ultimately the best solution for humanity and for Shinji.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:48 pm

Smith wrote:I speak primarily in reference to fanfiction and the like, being the expressions of fan opinion that they are, where the desire to see Rei and Shinji boinking seems to be exponentially more popular than that to see them being good friends, parts of a family or anything other than lovers.


Smith: Thank you. This drives me nuts as well. And QFT.

Ojichan: You're right with Rei 3 and Yui, I forgot about that! :duhme:
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Postby Mr. Tines » Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:30 pm

Smith wrote:the desire to see Rei and Shinji boinking seems to be exponentially more popular


I think it has to do with the all to prevalent idea that all a girl needs to solve all her problems is a good seeing-to.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:20 pm

Formless One wrote:When she isn't aware of those powers until the end, it makes a difference. The two are already separate until the appointed time.

Now we're headed back to the let's pretend it doesn't happen so things can happen the way we want train of thought... That was ALWAYS lurking under the surface so much so that Rei I said she was running from it. It's a part of her.

Only legalistically speaking.

Only system I care about TBH.

Er... pardon my ignorance, but what does that mean?

For fucks sake.

p06 wrote:Certainly, Rei's true origins affects little, at least from the POV of Shinji.

O'rly?
Shinji:
Ayanami...? Rei...!?

(Shinji screams as Lilith-Rei focuses on EVA-01 and cups it in her hands)

Shinji: AHHHHHHHHHHHHH! AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! AHHHH!!!
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Postby Formless One » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:02 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Now we're headed back to the let's pretend it doesn't happen so things can happen the way we want train of thought... That was ALWAYS lurking under the surface so much so that Rei I said she was running from it. It's a part of her.

I don't think that is where I was going with that. However, if she is running away from it, whats to say that she cannot succeed in that endeavor? It may not be healthy, but then, people act self destructively all the time without reason. Think "drama theory".

As far as i can tell, others (i.e. Gendo) forced her to confront her true nature on their terms, and the Rei we see when she becomes Lillith is influenced by those around her. She very well could have reacted differently to the situation if it was on her terms and with support of different people.

Only system I care about TBH.

The problem is, laws of man do not apply to my argument. Laws of nature do, and the law is clearly against you in this case. Setting aside the analogy that sparked this, Rei is still a human by her behavior and personality, and her origins have no bearing on whether this is true or not. Which was the point of the analogy. To determine what someone or something is, look at what they do and how they act, not at where they come from.

But then, we both agree somewhat on this anyway, in regards to Rei. This just happens to be of relevance to my original nitpick.

For fucks sake.

I see. Then to properly respond to that comment, remember that my attention span and short term memory have limited capacity, as I have mentioned before. I only ask for your patience. I apologise, as it seems this is not the first time we have agreed and still argued over things we agree on. I try not to let such things happen, and will continue to do so in the future.

Thank you.
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:20 pm

Formless One wrote:I don't think that is where I was going with that.

That may not be where you were going with it but it's my experience that it is where it always leads.

However, if she is running away from it, whats to say that she cannot succeed in that endeavor?

That she didn't? That if she did any relationship she forms while running from it would be based on a lie?

It may not be healthy, but then, people act self destructively all the time without reason.

Thank god Rei is smarter than that...

As far as i can tell, others (i.e. Gendo) forced her to confront her true nature on their terms

So how exactly could she escape it really?

and the Rei we see when she becomes Lillith is influenced by those around her

Lol Gendo, should have thought that through better.

She very well could have reacted differently to the situation if it was on her terms and with support of different people.

Who would have given a damn? Gendo? We know what he wants. Shinji? We saw his reaction. No one cared sorry to say.

The problem is, laws of man do not apply to my argument.

Oh so she's human but human laws don't apply to her??? Lolwut?

Laws of nature do

What species are we? Oh yeah, the one that spits in the face of the so called laws of nature on a daily basis.

and the law is clearly against you in this case

Really? How? Considering it was never the basis of my point it can go do something crude and explicit.

Setting aside the analogy that sparked this, Rei is still a human by her behavior and personality, and her origins have no bearing on whether this is true or not.

I have said Lilith is human many times. I don't see your point.

Which was the point of the analogy. To determine what someone or something is, look at what they do and how they act, not at where they come from.

You miss the point. Lilith is a being 4 billion years old from another freaking planet. What kind of relationship can such a being realisticly have with someone that kicks the bucket in under a century? Let's not even get started on her quantum powers...

Thank you.

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