Gendo's motivation

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

Moderator: Board Staff

Ark
Adam
Posts: 60
Joined: Jul 29, 2008

Gendo's motivation

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ark » Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:58 pm

Does anyone know of a thread containing discussion of what Gendo's motivation was in "the project" prior to Yui being absorbed. I watched 20 the other day and it got me think'n.

Sorry for all these questions.
Maya Ibuki- "We're so lucky to be living in such a wonderful time."

Eva Yojimbo
Redbeard
Redbeard
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8005
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:17 pm

He was probably just looking for a way to obtain power. Alas love snared him in entanglements.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

Action_Bastard
Pilot Candidate
Pilot Candidate
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 1902
Joined: Jul 21, 2008
Location: Illinois
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Action_Bastard » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:55 pm

He wanted to join the super secret society SEELE by marrying the daughter of a man in the organization.
REBUILD ≠ SERIES! GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK F***ING SKULLS!! :fistshake:
MyAnimeList

Ark
Adam
Posts: 60
Joined: Jul 29, 2008

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ark » Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:15 am

Action_Bastard wrote:He wanted to join the super secret society SEELE by marrying the daughter of a man in the organization.


Yes but to what end?
Maya Ibuki- "We're so lucky to be living in such a wonderful time."

Sharaz Destler
Lilin
Lilin
Posts: 1020
Joined: Jun 03, 2008
Location: Evergreen Park, IL

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sharaz Destler » Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:58 am

Ark wrote:Yes but to what end?


Hers, naturally. If you know what I mean.
"To the rational mind, nothing is inexplicable...only unexplained."--The Doctor, "Doctor Who".

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Sat Aug 02, 2008 2:16 pm

He wanted power, plain and simple. Being a member of SEELE is basically like ruling the world.

IX
Embryo
Posts: 20
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Terminal Dogma

Gendo is a smuck

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby IX » Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:39 pm

gendo was only interested in yui, it seems at first, for her talent and her connection to people "funding her research" (SEELE and the EVAs)

gendo wanted, even if it was not clear, to become a member of SEELE and to control his future

it, be his final words in EOE, that sometime between 2I and 2016 he developed a true love of his family and would use the connections he established with Seele, Nerv, the IC, and the Evas, to make the senerio that Seele wrote to his own ends to get what he himself said that by the end he did not deserve

only at the end, like in many stories, he learned a life altering truth literally a week too late

but no more picking my EVA monkey Brain, Just ponder what i ponder, PINKY
Don't let anyone touch it for the next 20 years, like wikipedia

Ornette
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 46
Posts: 11852
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh/New York City
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ornette » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:32 pm


Evangelion3491
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 5
Joined: Sep 08, 2008

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Evangelion3491 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:17 pm

He made a god with Nerv, however, I believe he also wanted to play a god.
"Ritsuko Akagi, I truly..."
-Gendo Ikari

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:48 pm

Also, a relevant writeup I did that takes a fairly radical approach to Gendo:

http://www.evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=152583#152583

It should be kept in mind that Gendo Before Yui's CE =/= Gendo After Yui's CE.
Last edited by Reichu on Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Lucretius
Nerv Employee
Nerv Employee
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1398
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Italy, EU
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lucretius » Mon Sep 08, 2008 10:51 pm

But...he knew about 2nd Impact in advance. And that was before Yui got Tanged.

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

AyrYntake
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 615
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Location: Depends...
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AyrYntake » Tue Sep 09, 2008 2:21 am

That doesn't stop him from trying to thwart SEELE's plans, first by getting into a position of power within, then trying to make things go his own way without letting SEELE know.
Wow, I think Reichu's Gendo is my new hero.
Cirrus, Socrates, particle, decibel, hurricane, dolphin, tulip

Lucretius
Nerv Employee
Nerv Employee
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1398
Joined: Jul 31, 2008
Location: Italy, EU
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Lucretius » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:12 am

:asuka_miffed:

What about the bit in 12 where Gendou says the South Pole has been "cleansed of sin," because nobody can live there? Or the bit in 26 where he says Instrumentality is "the only way to live"?

He shuddered a bit, remembering the somewhat creepy level of detail Kaji had gone into, while rubbing a watermelon in a disturbingly sexual way.

Life is a continuous nut-kicking contest where your turn comes last if ever. -majlund

Proud supporter of Shinji x Sachiel

Shin-seiki
Committeeperson
Committeeperson
User avatar
Posts: 852
Joined: Aug 25, 2004

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shin-seiki » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:47 am

@Lucretius:

Good point re #12; as for #25-26, I'd say Gendo's differences with SEELE, like so many other plot threads, are simply thrown out the window. He comes across as SEELE's spokesman, not their betrayer.

Chrad
Ramiel
Ramiel
Posts: 348
Joined: Sep 02, 2008
Location: Sydney

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chrad » Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:56 am

That is interesting.

This is straining a little, but maybe he is simply expressing his own belief that instrumentality is "the only way to live" because of the suffering he feels on earth vs. the chance of returning to Yui?

Eh, I don't really buy that. He does sound like he seeks the same ends as SEELE.

AyrYntake
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 615
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Location: Depends...
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AyrYntake » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:04 am

True, but all the while he also continually attempts to betray them...I'm thinking the Kaworu incident and how he gets Kaji to spy on the guys in an attempt to find out their little secrets.
Cirrus, Socrates, particle, decibel, hurricane, dolphin, tulip

Shin-seiki
Committeeperson
Committeeperson
User avatar
Posts: 852
Joined: Aug 25, 2004

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shin-seiki » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:12 am

AyrYntake wrote:True, but all the while he also continually attempts to betray them...I'm thinking the Kaworu incident and how he gets Kaji to spy on the guys in an attempt to find out their little secrets.
Well yeah, but my point is that in #25-26, all that is sort of disregarded. It's useful in this case to remember the Tiers of Canonicity: EoE and the Director's Cuts are the 'final version', and take precedence over the On-air version in any case where they diverge in terms of narrative, characterization, etc...

Zeak
Nerv Employee
Nerv Employee
User avatar
Posts: 1425
Joined: Dec 30, 2007
Location: Sydney Australia
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Zeak » Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:35 am

Would Yui have known what was going to happen all along. After all she does talk to Kozo about Instrumentality in a sense after 2I. I believe his motivation is clearly stated by himself and Kozo "Did you finally get to see Yui again?". He focused all his motivation onto seeing Yui again being selfish and only thinking what's best for himself (typical of most males). It wasn’t until Rei rejected his plan for instrumentality he realized what he had done. I believe I have missed a few other key points here but im tired. About to watch eva again for the 44th time (first time through with alcohol)
Writer and Lead animator of Cold Heart
webpage

AyrYntake
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 615
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Location: Depends...
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AyrYntake » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:23 am

That's still a rather harsh image to project onto a character of Gendo's complexity, especially if you consider the fact that he was already way up there in terms of power in SEELE before Yui's CE. If you look here you'll see that Gendo and Yui MIGHT even have had a pact to help each other into powerful positions, which kinda helps explain why he ended up head of NERV. I think that explains things much better than just all-out obsession with Yui.
Sorry to reiterate what you've posted above, Reichu.
Anyway, I think this just about sums it up (Reichu again!):
Reichu wrote:Despite his antisocial and oftentimes paradoxical, ruthless, and selfish nature (especially after "losing" Yui), Gendo doesn't seem to possess the sorts of misanthropic sentiments characteristic of Seele. His hatreds are intrinsically self-directed rather than outward, and I receive the impression, at least, that he thinks humanity in and of itself is something worth saving.

Problem is, he doesn't seem to be very good at expressing his emotions. Towards Shinji, he was probably jealous that Yui's affection now wasn't directed towards him alone. Compare this with Fuyutsuki's treatment of Gendo: Old Kozo is probably quite displeased that Yui chose this bar-brawling boor over him but plays along nicely and helps him anyway, as a mentor and advisor (though this may have been due to his desire to see Yui again, not unlike Gendo's). I'd say the only few people who knew Gendo well were Fuyutsuki, Yui, Rei and (possibly?) Kiel Lorenz.
Gendo's fear ends up causing him to present his cold, merciless side to everyone else who he doesn't trust well enough, which ultimately leads to Rei dumping him as well. Realization of this fact comes too late in 3I with the lines "So this is to be my punishment? I'm sorry, Shinji." CRUNCH.
Being Shinji's dad, Gendo is probably more like Shinji than you think.
Last edited by AyrYntake on Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cirrus, Socrates, particle, decibel, hurricane, dolphin, tulip

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:51 am

AyrYntake wrote:That's still a rather harsh image to project onto a character of Gendo's complexity, especially if you consider the fact that he was already way up there in terms of power in SEELE before Yui's CE.

Quite. This throws a curveball at a lot of the "Gendo motive" interpretations I've seen, since his motivations BEFORE are as important as the ones AFTER, since they were required to get into the position of losing Yui and thereby developing his pathological obsession in the first place. (Long sentence!)

Sorry to reiterate what you've posted above, Reichu.

No problem. ;)

Compare this with Fuyutsuki's treatment of Gendo: Old Kozo is probably quite displeased that Yui chose this bar-brawling boor over him but plays along nicely and helps him anyway, as a mentor and advisor (though this may have been due to his desire to see Yui again, not unlike Gendo's).

Fuyu definitely wasn't pleased with it at first, and we know that there's a part of him that always desired Yui ("in that way"). I guess it's ambiguous whether or not he's harbored an active bitterness towards Gendo all along, or if he's more or less come to terms with the fact that Yui chose Gendo. His behavior in the show points towards the latter, but that's just my impression.

I'd say the only few people who knew Gendo well were Fuyutsuki, Yui, Rei and (possibly?) Kiel Lorenz.

Well... Kiel might have thought he knew Gendo well, but it wasn't well enough. :wink:

Gendo's fear ends up causing him to present his cold, merciless side to everyone else who he doesn't trust well enough

Gendo is a master of the Defense Mechanism.

Being Shinji's dad, Gendo is probably more like Shinji that you think.

Comparisons are drawn several times in the show itself, too.

Shin-seiki wrote:Well yeah, but my point is that in #25-26, all that is sort of disregarded. It's useful in this case to remember the Tiers of Canonicity: EoE and the Director's Cuts are the 'final version', and take precedence over the On-air version in any case where they diverge in terms of narrative, characterization, etc...

Incidentally, this makes me wonder... EoTV diverges in some ways from EoE, obviously, but do Gendo's words disagree with anything he says in the TV show itself? (Not challenging Tiers at all -- this is out of curiosity only.)

Lucretius wrote:What about the bit in 12 where Gendou says the South Pole has been "cleansed of sin," because nobody can live there?

I remember an interpretation that went along the lines, 'it's cleansed of 'sin' because Lilith usurping Adam is the 'original sin' and...' -- drat, I'd have to try finding it again. I'm not sure I ever bought into it, but it was interesting, at least.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog


Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests