Rei questions

This is the place to start: Feel free to introduce yourself, have general conversations and casual discussions about all things Evangelion, including chit-chatty topics like "Sachiel is adorable" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?"

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Postby AyrYntake » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:08 am

Yes, but that's a purpose she doesn't know of, and for the meantime she might as well be any other Eva pilot serving to kill of the rest of the Angels.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:19 pm

So as not to completely repeat things, I'm just gonna say I agree with Sloth and NAW-kun on this: Rei wasn't fully paying attention to what Shinji was saying because he wasn't being coherent and she was more concerned about the glasses.

With watching Shinji heading out in Eva-01 as well as sitting by his hospital room, I think it was general curiosity about Eva and Shinji, although she wasn't concerned with him emotionally until after the Operation Yashima battle.

EDIT: And I also think her saying "What?" was confusion on why Shinji was there/not knowing that her being naked in front of him was a big deal, although she was slightly uncomfortable as her eyes showed.
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Postby mrpanda » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:33 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:With watching Shinji heading out in Eva-01 as well as sitting by his hospital room, I think it was general curiosity about Eva and Shinji, although she wasn't concerned with him emotionally until after the Operation Yashima battle.


I do agree with this to a degree, there is of course the point that she acturally cares for him in a weird way, after all Shinji = Ikari no 2 and i doubt that she understands the tensions between them therefore she cares for him out of love for gendo......?????
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Postby Vegeta 20XX » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:11 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I think the "What?" meant, "What are you staring at me for?" not "What did you come here for?" I think it was more an acknowledgment of his gaze and less of an inquiry. Like JimmyWolk said, the glasses were more important than Shinji. Rei seemed to view him as just some harmless guy who was touching her things, and she decided to stop that. Once that was taken care of, he returned to the unimportant state. Saying, "What" was probably a way of saying "I notice you're still here, and I see no logical reason for that. Just thought I'd bring that to your attention."


As far as I could gather from the episode, Rei likely didn't see the notion that getting knocked down and having one's chest groped at (even accidentally, as was the case) as something to be angry about (in other words, the "What" deal was that Rei probably didn't understand that something like that isn't a big deal, at least big enough of one to warrant an apology). It fit's Rei's personality (or more appropriately, Rei's lack of one).
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Postby Iron Rooster » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:51 pm

Vegeta 20XX wrote:(or more appropriately, Rei's lack of one).


Oh geez, get ready to duck. Someone's gonna get Rei-ped by the Rei fans here. Oh yeah, she does have emotions. ( by the way, scroll down to the huge ass picture. )
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:03 am

Iron Rooster wrote:Oh yeah, she does have emotions. ( by the way, scroll down to the huge ass picture. )


Oh snap. It's the picture that would not end!

BTW, personality != emotions. You can be the dullest person in the world and still wince when it feels like your arm's been torn off.
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Postby p06 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:11 am

Gamer_2k4 wrote:BTW, personality != emotions.


Rei has both.
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Postby Zuggy » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:20 am

Dartz wrote:I think it's more showing the Gendou Ikari is too the fore In Rei's mind at the time.

Yeah - but what is she thinking at that moment? The expression on her face in that scene is hard to read.

Dartz wrote:You see the way she practically idolises him when she jogs around th armour of Unit 00 in Ep, 5, and how she's talking to the Commander with what could almost be a smile on her face...

She does smile! There's no almost about it!

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I think the "What?" meant, "What are you staring at me for?" not "What did you come here for?" I think it was more an acknowledgment of his gaze and less of an inquiry.

Nice. Couldn't have said that any better.

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I honestly don't know why Rei snatched the card away from Shinji. She seems too emotionless (towards Shinji, anyway) to have been annoyed, and she didn't seem to be in enough of a hurry to need it that quickly either.

slothen wrote:The shortness with Shinji, snatching the card, I would chalk up to irritation with him over the glasses, although, its possible she's frustrated with him for being fairly annoying and bothersome that entire morning.

I'm leaning towards slothen here though I feel like I'm still missing something - she's probably irritated with him following her to headquarters without a word as well.

UrsusArctos wrote:Well, going by what Anno told Hayashibara, it's not that Rei doesn't have emotions but doesn't know what emotions are.

Don't you think the show itself tends to contradict that though? When we look at the scene at the end of #6 and the scene towards the middle of #23 what Rei's voice actress said there rings true, but I don't get the impression that Rei is as cut off as those words imply when watching the rest of the series.

Gamer_2k4 wrote:It looked more like she took it in stride. "Oh, there's something blocking my light. I guess I'll just move so that it's not blocking my light anymore. Okay, there it goes again. Guess I'll see what the obstruction is." I didn't see annoyance either of the times I watched that episode.

Rei is patently annoyed with Asuka when she blocks her light. If you're having trouble seeing that it's worth looking over the animatic for that scene.

This piece of dialogue between Asuka and Rei -
[code:1]Asuka:
So the other one's here too, isn't she?

Shinji:
Who's that?

Asuka:
What are you, stupid? I'm talking about the First Child, of course!

Shinji:
Oh, if it's Ayanami...

Asuka:
Hello! You must be Rei Ayanami, the pilot of the prototype.
I'm Asuka! Asuka Langley Sohryu. I'm the pilot of Eva Unit 02.
Let's be good friends!

Rei:
Why?

Asuka:
Because it'd be convenient, in lots of ways.

Rei:
If I'm ordered to, I will.

Asuka:
Talk about odd.[/code:1]
- shows Asuka being obnoxious and Rei being snide in return. "Let's be good friends!" - "If I'm ordered to, I will," bit says to me "the only way I'm going to be friends with you is if I'm forced to be."

NemZ wrote:I always kinda had the feeling that early on Rei was annoyed by Shinji's existence, mostly because he was piloting EVA 01 instead of her.

She is quick to tell Shinji that his data files for EVA-01 can be overwritten with her's at a moments notice... hm.

Iron Rooster wrote:Someone's gonna get Rei-ped by the Rei fans here.

I think there are only a handful of Rei fanboys on this forum, not enough for internet rape.

Gamer_2k4 wrote:You can be the dullest person in the world and still wince when it feels like your arm's been torn off.

A few of the screenshots there don't show Rei being emotional at all, but in all of them she's being expressionate if that's the right word.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:53 am

Gamer_2k4: Actually, Rei 2 has a tendency to be more emotional in Eva then when not. Probably because she's with Rei 1, but at any rate when in Eva:
~She actually lets out a scream/yell in episode 13
~Is in obvious pain whenever she's hurt in battle
~Smiles in the Entry Plug in episode 6/Death
~Cries in Eva in Episode 23'

There are probably more examples, but those are the ones that come to mind.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:52 pm

Zuggy wrote:- shows Asuka being obnoxious and Rei being snide in return. "Let's be good friends!" - "If I'm ordered to, I will," bit says to me "the only way I'm going to be friends with you is if I'm forced to be."


To me it merely says

"Friendship is an expenditure of effort that is not directed towards the purpose of piloting an Evangelion. In the interests of efficiency of this organization, I will not squander effort on things that do not further that purpose. However, being a good soldier, I will obey reasonable orders that involve some loss of efficiency."
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Postby NemZ » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:53 pm

Zuggy wrote:She is quick to tell Shinji that his data files for EVA-01 can be overwritten with her's at a moments notice... hm.


The look she gave him in passing in the hospital hallway in ep2 actually looked a little harsh to me, as if she was silently accusing him of something.

In ep3 she seems to be pointedly ignoring him even when he spills the beans to the class. She informs him of the angel, but then seems to indicate that she'll be the one taking care of it this time, or at least she hopes/assumes she will. She apparently doesn't see any problem leaving him in the dust while she runs off, in any case.

I believe the mildly curious look she gives from the catwalk in ep5 is the first time she regards Shinji without some vague sense of restrained annoyance, not coincidently after her first successful activation test. Then again she probably can't see him and this is looking at unit 01, so it's possible she's just wondering how long it will be until she's finally the one being sent out to fight.
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:19 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:
Zuggy wrote:- shows Asuka being obnoxious and Rei being snide in return. "Let's be good friends!" - "If I'm ordered to, I will," bit says to me "the only way I'm going to be friends with you is if I'm forced to be."


To me it merely says

"Friendship is an expenditure of effort that is not directed towards the purpose of piloting an Evangelion. In the interests of efficiency of this organization, I will not squander effort on things that do not further that purpose. However, being a good soldier, I will obey reasonable orders that involve some loss of efficiency."


EXACTLY! There's nothing in Rei's tone (yeah, not a good reference point, I know) to agree with Zuggy's post. In fact, I'm almost positive that I've seen a similar opinion expressed somewhere in the Evapedia, and my first thought was, "If someone has to tell me that that's what Rei means, and it's not self-evident (even after a bit of review), then that interpretation isn't credible."

And sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you, Zuggy. You're definitely entitled to your own opinion; the only reason I'm bringing this up is because, like I said before, I'm almost positive I saw that interpretation in the Evapedia, which is supposed to have a bit of authority behind it.
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Postby Zuggy » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:37 am

Mr. Tines wrote:To me it merely says

"Friendship is an expenditure of effort that is not directed towards the purpose of piloting an Evangelion. In the interests of efficiency of this organization, I will not squander effort on things that do not further that purpose. However, being a good soldier, I will obey reasonable orders that involve some loss of efficiency."

Do you think that sits well with what occurs between Rei and Asuka throughout the rest of the series?

Gamer_2k4 wrote:In fact, I'm almost positive that I've seen a similar opinion expressed somewhere in the Evapedia, and my first thought was, "If someone has to tell me that that's what Rei means, and it's not self-evident (even after a bit of review), then that interpretation isn't credible."

And sorry if I sound like I'm attacking you, Zuggy. You're definitely entitled to your own opinion; the only reason I'm bringing this up is because, like I said before, I'm almost positive I saw that interpretation in the Evapedia, which is supposed to have a bit of authority behind it.

I wrote the page on evapedia you're referring to - though it was never finished before I stopped contributing due to an ownership argument.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:43 am

Zuggy wrote:Do you think that sits well with what occurs between Rei and Asuka throughout the rest of the series?


Yes.
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:21 am

Zuggy wrote:
Mr. Tines wrote:To me it merely says

"Friendship is an expenditure of effort that is not directed towards the purpose of piloting an Evangelion. In the interests of efficiency of this organization, I will not squander effort on things that do not further that purpose. However, being a good soldier, I will obey reasonable orders that involve some loss of efficiency."

Do you think that sits well with what occurs between Rei and Asuka throughout the rest of the series?

Well, sort of, yeah. Rei doesn't really become friends with anyone throughout the course of the show, so it's not like she and Asuka are the only ones who don't hit it off. And Rei tells it like it is, regardless of how she feels about someone. When Shinji was bad-mouthing his father, she was quick to slap him. Likewise, any time we see her confront Asuka, it's because she's done something to deserve it. Rei has no personal malice towards Asuka that I notice. She just doesn't appreciate some of the things Asuka says.
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Postby Zuggy » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:21 am

Mr. Tines wrote:Yes.

That throws new light on the rest of the series then. From the first time Rei and Asuka met up to final spat between them in episode 22. In episode 9 with Rei being better at Asuka at Twister and she wonders who Rei is, then in episode 10 where Asuka jealously guards her EVA-02 from Rei piloting it, in episode 11 where Rei takes over Asuka's lead and Asuka voices her thoughts about Rei being a smug bitch, in episode 16 where Rei angrily questions why Asuka pilots, in episode 22 where Asuka feels like she was saved by Rei during the battle with Arael - during these scenes and others that slipped my mind there wasn't a build up of hatred or tension between them at all before the elevator scene, Rei was just acting in her interest of being a good solider and being efficient.

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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:27 am

Zuggy wrote:
Mr. Tines wrote:Yes.

That throws new light on the rest of the series then. From the first time Rei and Asuka met with Asuka obnoxiously introducing herself to the final spat between them in episode 22. In episode 9 with Rei being better at Asuka at Twister and she wonders who Rei is, then in episode 10 where Asuka jealously guards her EVA-02 from Rei piloting it, in episode 11 where Rei takes over Asuka's lead and Asuka voices her thoughts about Rei being a smug bitch, in episode 16 where Rei angrily questions why Asuka pilots, in episode 22 where Asuka feels like she was saved by Rei during the battle with Arael - during these scenes and others that slipped my mind there wasn't a build up of hatred or tension between them at all before the elevator scene, Rei was just acting in her interest of being a good solider and being efficient.

Well, you'll notice that in all of the incidents that you mentioned, Asuka was the antagonist, and the fifth incident was really the only one where Rei replies. Whether or not Asuka likes Rei is irrelevant, since we're discussing how Rei feels towards Asuka.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:22 am

zuggy wrote:during these scenes and others that slipped my mind there wasn't a build up of hatred or tension between them at all before the elevator scene, Rei was just acting in her interest of being a good solider and being efficient.


There was a buildup of hatred and tension on Asuka's part. Rei however, would get annoyed with Asuka when the former would do something Rei felt was wrong for whatever reason (using the example of the time Rei slapped Shinji for badmouthing Gendo), but there wasn't any hatred on Rei's part towards Asuka...or Ritsuko for that matter.
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Postby Ja Ayanami » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:41 pm

Is it just me or are we tending to equate emotion to facial expression. That was definitely the impression I got early on. Rei displays emotion in various ways throughout the series, specifically her actions. For instance when Shinji is absorbed into the Sea of Dirac, she momentarily questions the retreat in favor of attempting what can only be assumed as a rescue of Shinji.

Another example is her discomfort with personal situations such as when Shinji opens the super heated hatch after the death of the 5 angel. She is clearly uncomfortable with not knowing what to do in the situation, though her facial expression does not display this.

The most striking example I can think of though is when she goes to the rooftop to speak to Toji after he is selected as the fourth child. What purpose could this serve for anyone? Clearly she has an ulterior motive other than simply following procedure. I feel in the case of Rei as many of you have pointed out. She did have emotions; she just did not understand the proper time or way to express them.
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Postby Zuggy » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:13 pm

Ja Ayanami wrote:Is it just me or are we tending to equate emotion to facial expression.

Understand what you mean but it's hard to take a screenshot of Rei expressing emotion in other ways.

Something never got around to posting about was the connections between #25 and #26 with Rei's ramble in #14. The bits of text in the quote tags are from #14 with the rest of the text being from the last two episodes.

#14 wrote:Mountain...
Heavy mountains.
Things that change over time.

Your world is made up of continual change.

#14 wrote:Sky...
Blue sky.
What your eyes can't see.
What your eyes can see.
Sun...
A unique object.
Water...
Something comforting.
Commander Ikari?
Flowers...
So many of the same.
And so many unneeded.

The blue sky...
Something warm...
Something I'm not used to...
Something frightening...
Something that's not needed...
I don't like it.

#14 wrote:Sky...
Red, red sky.
The color red.
I hate the color red.

Sunset...
vanishing life...
My wish...
I don't like it.

#14 wrote:Water flowing.
Blood...
The smell of blood.
A woman who never bleeds.
Man made from red soil.
Man made from man and woman.
City... A human creation.
Eva... A human creation.
What is a human? A creation of God?
Is man a human creation?
The things I possess are life and soul.
I am a vessel for a soul.
Entry plug, the throne for a soul.
Who is this? This is me.
Who am I? What am I? What am I?
What am I? What am I?
I am myself.
This object is me.
The form that shapes me.
This is the me that can be seen,
yet I feel as though I am not myself.

This is...
Me!
It's the form of me that I show to others.
It's the symbol that is me.
So is this, and this and this!
Shinji Ikari
They're all just things that represent me.
They're all merely what other people recognize as me.
Then, what am I?

You are you.
The only thing is, there's a distinct difference between that
and the actual scope of who you are.

#14 wrote:Very strange.
I feel as if my body is melting.
I can no longer see myself.
My shape is fading.

What is this sensation?
I feel like I've experienced it before,
as if the shape of my body is melting away.
It feels so good.
I feel like I'm growing, expanding outward...
On and on...

#14 wrote:I feel the presence of someone who is not me.
Is someone there, beyond this?
Ikari?
I know this person. Major Katsuragi.
Doctor Akagi.
Everyone.
Classmates.
The pilot of Unit 02.
Commander Ikari?
Who are you?
Who are you?
Who are you?

There are likely plenty more allusions made more subtely in the dialogue as well as in the shared imagery between these episodes, I only skimmed through the script and picked out obvious things for the above.



The other thing I'd like folks thoughts on is what Rei says in #19 about dreams.

#19 wrote:Asuka:
It might really be over.
I'll bet that idiot won't recover from this.

Rei:
How is Ikari?

Asuka:
He wasn't injured, so he ought to be okay.
He's probably dreaming away.

Rei:
Dreaming?

Asuka:
Yeah. Don't tell me you don't dream?

What are we supposed to infer from this? That dreaming is something alien to Rei, even though Rei seems the most spaced out and Osaka-like of the Children - or that to Rei there isn't much difference between the waking hours and dreaming hours, which I recall dovetailing with something I read in one of RAW's or Leary's books when they relate about Australian(?) aborigines' thoughts on dreams or something like that - it's also strange that Rei having books which are supposedly on psychology, where you would think dreams would be discussed, could be an alien concept to her. Feels like there's something I'm missing in all this.


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