What do you watch with? (Dub or Sub?)

This is the place to start: Feel free to introduce yourself, have general conversations and casual discussions about all things Evangelion, including chit-chatty topics like "Sachiel is adorable" or "Which Eva kicks the most ass?"

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Postby Giji Shinka » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:32 pm

Definitely sub.
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Postby MisatoCrush » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:52 pm

There was an error in the Subtitles for the version of EoE that I watched.

It happened twice, for a few minutes each time.

At one point the word 'Rei' was just stuck at the bottom, overlapping with the current subs.

And later it happened again with an entire sentence blocking the current subs, which basically prevented me from reading any subs for perhaps 5 minutes.

It was during important scenes too when the 3I started happening.
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Postby AngelNo13Bardiel » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:53 am

I've watched it both ways, mostly dub in the beginning and the last several times in its native tongue with subs on.
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Postby MisatoCrush » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:32 am

I would feel like I'm betraying the characters if I listen to them with English actors voices.
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Postby AngelNo13Bardiel » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:39 am

Hey, I was young(er) then and didn't even consider that subbed was the better way to go.

That being said, I'll probably never get the English voices out of my head now (for better or worse).
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Don't bend; don't water it down; don't try to make it logical; don't edit your own soul according to the fashion. Rather, follow your most intense obsessions mercilessly. - Franz Kafka
Clones to the left of me, tsunderes to the right...and here I am, stuck in the middle with Shinji. - how I view my experience with Evangelion
-When it comes to Asuka/Shinji, pre-EoE is like moving Mount Everest and post-EoE is like moving the Olympus Mons. Either way, it's moving a mountain. It's just the size of said mountain.-

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Postby MisatoCrush » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:44 am

Ah, I wasn't judging you for using English Dubs. :)

Just thats how I'd feel. I'm still gonna use Engdubs so I can focus on the incredible imagery!
^^

EDIT: Hey, do you guys like the English dub voice actors' performances? Is it on par with the ones for Cowboy Bebop (which I think are fantastic)?
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Postby amitakartok » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:20 am

View Original PostMisatoCrush wrote:Is it on par with the ones for Cowboy Bebop (which I think are fantastic)?


Not even close.

My biggest issues are with the dub actors of Misato and Asuka: they do the job fine while talking in a calm voice but the instant the yelling starts, I'm on the verge of tearing my own hair out from how grating these two women sound. Especially Asuka's; I just can't stand that kind of helium-voice from a non-Japanese speaker.
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Postby heavytread » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:08 am

Really depends i only watch the series with subs anything longer than about a half hour long i watch dubbed. whether or not that's a good idea never came to mind :lol:

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Postby gatotsu911 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:00 pm

I'm actually not too crazy about Grant or Miyamura's Asuka. Grant's performance is too tsun; Miyamura's is too dere. In Asuka, there must be balance.

And now, for some blasphemy:

In some significant ways I actually like Eva's dub as much if not more than Bebop's; between the two, the voices for the main cast in Eva have far more personality, even if Bebop's supporting cast is clearly superior (even to its own mains). When the Eva dub fails, it fails due to the voice actors overemoting or emoting inappropriately, which to my mind is still a nobler failure than the Bebop dub's weaker moments, which just sound robotic. (I'm sorry, Steve Blum cannot convincingly convey any emotional state more sophisticated than "cool", and in a show like Bebop where pretty much none of the characters ever express their emotions directly through dialogue this can be extremely damaging.)

The Eva dub is still rougher around the edges due to the comparative inexperience at the time of everyone involved by comparison to Bebop, but what it lacks in consistency it makes up for with the strengths of its stronger moments. If nothing else, it represents everything I love about cheesy 90s dubbing: sometimes it's hilariously bad, sometimes it's surprisingly good, but it's never lacking in personality; you can tell that actual human beings made this, and not just the faceless Japanese Media Localization Machine. The same goes for Bebop, more or less, but the "personality" part is a little less there (manifested mostly by the colorful bit characters rather than the bland Bebop crew).

Also, the Bebop dub has a pretty boring script adaptation (I hate Marc Handler). Eva's makes some good-natured attempts at giving the dialogue flourishes that make it flow better in English, and while these sometimes backfire and end up undermining the original intent (e.g. Shinji's jarring "Bullshit!" in ep. 5) in some cases they actually enhance it (c.f. Asuka's slipping into German when shocked/excited, Shinji's jarring-in-a-good-way "I'm so fucked up" in EoE).
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Postby BC Baron » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:45 am

@gatotsu911: I think you might be onto something here. While I enjoyed the English dub for both NGE and Cowboy Bebop, I rate Bebop slightly higher in terms of technical proficiency. I think it's the more consistent of the two, if that makes any sense. It took me a bit less time to get accustomed to Bebop's voice actors and I feel like the overall quality remained at quite a high level throughout just about the entire series.

I'm no expert, but I think Eva's dub, on the other hand, is much more of an acquired taste. Compared to Bebop, there are a lot more flaws the audience must be willing to overlook in regard to both the delivery of certain portions of dialogue, as well as the script's ability to precisely reflect the meaning and tone of the Japanese equivalent in some scenes. Nonetheless, for the right viewer who can see past these issues and has enough patience to stick with it, there's also a lot to appreciate when given a chance.

Having said all that, I still feel that the people at ADV deserve credit for their efforts. While the finished product may not have been as polished as the treatment Bebop received, I personally grade Eva's dub on a curve and, as a result, tend to give it higher marks than most because I believe that the material was much more challenging. Eva's main cast of characters outnumbered Bebop's and were more diverse in terms of age, background, and motivation. Between all the conspiracies, flashback sequences, character arcs, emotional displays and revelations throughout the series (not to mention the Instrumentality episodes), Eva's plot-related elements demanded a lot more range (and a willingness to leave one's comfort zone) from its voice actors than Bebop ever could.
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Postby gatotsu911 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:29 am

Yeah, agreed on all fronts. No one in Bebop (or any other anime dub that I can think of, really) ever had to pull off anything like the hospital scene.
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Postby Stratomeister » Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:21 pm

I have a strange relationship with dubs and subs, those of Evangelion in particular.

I find it very difficult, nigh on impossible in fact, to flip flop between the sub and dub or any show, and lo and behold, Evangelion is no different. I first viewed Eva in English, so having the change to Japanese can be more than a little jarring for me. Here's where the relationship gets... complicated.

Even through my first viewing there were some particularly horrendous lines and translations that popped up. The epitome of them being Misato's, "Thanks Shinji, you're pretty useful!" in the opening minutes of episode one. Was that seriously the first thing that came to mind after nearly being killed in a massive explosion? Just what the hell was that anyway!?

*sigh* Moving on, we encounter the multiple changes in voice actors between the original cut, directors cut, and EoE dubs, and again into the rebuilds. Something that I can get used to. I know, it's my choice to watch the english version, and this is something I chose to deal with, but what irked me in The End of Evangelion was the nonsensical decision to change the pronunciation of Eva. Come on guys, is it Eh-va, E-va, A-va, just make up your mind!

Despite all the complaining I've done about the dub, I still love it. Sure it's got some rough edges, and makes mistakes now and again, but nothing is perfect. Evangelion has proved that beyond a doubt.
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Postby Squigsquasher » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:36 am

Sub, all the way.

Megumi Ogata's Shinji is utterly adorable, and actually sounds like a little boy. Spike Spencer's Shinji is perfect for a spoof dub, but for a serious dub of a work as important as Evangelion, just no. He's actually painful to listen to at times.

Yuko Miyamura's Asuka actually sounds 14, although her German is awful. Tiffany Grant is definitely one of the stronger parts of the dub, but still sounds too old (especially when speaking German, although admittedly German is impossible to speak without sounding 40).

Megumi Hayashibara's Rei is, well, Megumi Hayashibara, Japanese female Mel Blanc. There is no voice she cannot do. I for one don't mind Amanda Winn Lee's Rei so much, but nothing can possibly top MH's performance.
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Postby user-02 » Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:27 pm

View Original PostStratomeister wrote:I have a strange relationship with dubs and subs, those of Evangelion in particular.

I find it very difficult, nigh on impossible in fact, to flip flop between the sub and dub or any show, and lo and behold, Evangelion is no different. I first viewed Eva in English, so having the change to Japanese can be more than a little jarring for me. Here's where the relationship gets... complicated.

Even through my first viewing there were some particularly horrendous lines and translations that popped up. The epitome of them being Misato's, "Thanks Shinji, you're pretty useful!" in the opening minutes of episode one. Was that seriously the first thing that came to mind after nearly being killed in a massive explosion? Just what the hell was that anyway!?

*sigh* Moving on, we encounter the multiple changes in voice actors between the original cut, directors cut, and EoE dubs, and again into the rebuilds. Something that I can get used to. I know, it's my choice to watch the english version, and this is something I chose to deal with, but what irked me in The End of Evangelion was the nonsensical decision to change the pronunciation of Eva. Come on guys, is it Eh-va, E-va, A-va, just make up your mind!

Despite all the complaining I've done about the dub, I still love it. Sure it's got some rough edges, and makes mistakes now and again, but nothing is perfect. Evangelion has proved that beyond a doubt.


I'm in the same boat, more or less. For better or for worse, the English dub was my initiation into the series. And I've stuck with it.

I've grown to associate the characters with their English voices. Despite a few glaring instances to the contrary (Black Hyuga being the most infamous and comical), those voices tend to stay fairly consistent, despite a lot of deck-shuffling among the cast.

Spike Spencer is an acquired taste, but I guess I've acquired it. I realize he's a polarizing figure, and nobody seems to find a comfortable middle ground in their assessment of him. It's all love or loathe. For my part, I think he's quite good. How a grown man manages to sound so prepubescent is a mystery, but whatever Spike's methodology, I can dig it. I know I'm in a minority here. So be it.

Tiffany Grant, as the previous poster mentioned, sounds a lot older than 14. But if that's her biggest crime in her portrayal of Asuka, it's a relatively minor infraction. For those who say her performance lacks nuance, I urge you to go back and watch the series with a specific focus on Asuka's development. Grant gives a markedly different performance as chest-thumping Asuka than she does as rock-bottom Asuka. There are subtleties here. They're not easily spotted, but that's because they're subtle. :)

Amanda Winn-Lee doesn't show a lot of range, but then again, Rei is a pretty consistent personality throughout. I think she does just fine. I wouldn't consider her performance a highlight, per se, but it's serviceably weird and Rei-esque. (Brina Palencia's performance in the Rebuild movies is certainly more ethereal and eccentric, and I'm not yet sure which version I prefer. AWL's is more human, but perhaps to a slight disadvantage, given the requirements of the character.)

Allison Keith's Misato is hit or miss. Sometimes she just grates on me, especially early on in the series. But sometimes she just nails it. I prefer off-duty Misato to on-duty Misato, as far as Ms. Keith's performance is concerned. The former is a lot wackier, but less stilted, with the effect of seeming more three dimensional. (I will say that I cringe every time I watch that scene where she gets wasted and piggyback-rides on Kaji after the wedding. It's a lowlight. It's almost like listening to a Looney Tunes parody of what a drunk person is supposed to sound like. I half expect her to burst into stereotypical hiccups.)

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Postby HeeroYuyIII » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:01 pm

Japanese for Kaji, Misato, Gendo, Toji and Fuyutsuki, especially. I don't think either are good, but the Japanese is on the level of "tolerable" thanks to those VAs. The dub, while pretty dated by 2014 is pretty good for a 1996 dub. I think most of Evageeks views Eva's dub on par with something like DBZ, when the DBZ dub is way worse. At least Eva was a semi-accurate dub and at least the dub got better. While not a good dub, I can't hate it for hating's sake. Also, Asuka and Shinji are just as bad in Japanese as in English. Anyone who thinks Spike Spencer is bad, but Megumi Ogata is good is a hypocrite. Also, how can anybody say Hayashibara is "great" as Rei? She's not. She's a phenomenal VO, but Rei is so easy to pull off, any woman can do her as long as you can whisper and show suppressed emotion. Simple.

@MisatoCrush Bebop has a pretty shitty dub, if you look at it objectively. Think of it like this. It came out in 1999. July 1999 to be exact. Keep that month and year in mind. That was when dubs were pretty bad. Say what you want about dubs of today, but they were way worse back then. Bebop sounding remotely decent means nothing. It didn't take that much to be good back in fucking 1999. Because of Bebop relatively quality to the dubs back then, people must think the dub is some masterpiece of dubbing, when I can name 10 which can easily outperform it in terms of voice acting, scriptwriting and holding up to now. Jet Black in English is inconsistent, the sides sound stupid, Vicious sounds weak, lame and is badly acted, Faye is okay, but not as good as Megumi Hayashibara's defining performance. The script also adds in too much talking. I admit to liking Blum/David Lucas as Spike, Mary McGlynn/Melissa Williamson as Julia and Melissa Fahn/Melissa Charles as Edward, but that's it. Admittedly, the movie dub was much better, but damn it, I want to see the movie dub performances in the TV series. Cowboy Bebop is one of the few mediocre Animaze dubs. Bar the movie and a few characters, the English dubbing deserves no praise.

Fanboys of this dub shun over dubs, while loving the dubbed error mess Bebop is. I think script wise, even Eva is better written in dubbed form. People say the Japanese love that shitty dub, even though I've never seen evidence, people say that Watanabe expressed preference for the dub. Where? I want to see the interview/video where he praises the dub to that standard. That rumor is as old as the dub itself, yet as of now, people have YET to show proof of this. People said the same thing about Evangelion and how Anno loves the dub of that and that was rooted out and shot down quickly. Why do people fall for the rumor of Bebop? Also, in a convention in the UK, Watanabe stated he wanted episode one to be in Japanese, which shoots down any rumors of him loving/preferring the dub. If anybody wants to send me a message or show me EXPLICITLY WHERE HE SAID HE PREFERRED THE DUB, I would like to see it, because this 10+ year old lie/rumor has to end.
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Postby Sephizim » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:03 pm

My answer is, I think, going to be pretty standard for your average English-language EVA viewer. I watched the series with the ADV dub first, and knew it wasn't the best, but certainly wasn't the worst, at least as far as the sounds of voices go. I'm still a big fan of the way Tristan MacAvery voiced Gendo. But I was annoyed by the fact that the movies had such a huge change in voice cast, and some of the inaccuracies of that dub. But overall, I was content with the dub.

That was until I watched the entire series in Japanese. One thing I liked was that the seiyuu were the same for everything. So, for a change of pace, I decided to stick with the original for a while. But then, when I tried going back to the dub it just... didn't sound right anymore. I don't know, the seiyuu just sound so right for the characters. Not to say its perfect. I feel like Ritsuko is a bit too soft-spoken at times, and sometimes the vocal delivery doesn't seem to match the animation (Gendo yelling for the Dummy System to be activated comes to mind). But something about the dub seems too garish and unpolished. So, I pretty much understand why so many people prefer the original.

That being said, I do miss being able to watch EVA without having to read subtitles.


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