Pill Popping Ayanami

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Postby NemZ » Fri Jul 18, 2008 8:33 pm

Xard wrote:Yeah, I ALWAYS wondered what was point of pills in TV show.

Then in EoE Rei's AT Field suddenly isn't able to hold herself together anymore. WTF?

No reason ever given.

But those two added together with manga's revelation (if you want to call it that) = PERFECT SENSE


I assumed her falling apart was a consequence of voluntarily weakening her AT field, as Gendo just told her to do.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:41 am

NemZ wrote:It's in stage 56. She gives Rei a shot, not pills.

This scene makes very little sense, in any case. Honestly Sadamoto, WTF?

Yeah. She should have at least used her bare hands.

I assumed her falling apart was a consequence of voluntarily weakening her AT field, as Gendo just told her to do.

She starts falling apart before Gendo tells her to do anything.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:15 am

Reichu wrote:She starts falling apart before Gendo tells her to do anything.


Oh, you're right. Hmm... that is pretty strange. Perhaps it's a side effect of her producing the OMGWTFBBQ field the day before? Could be the pills, but then we never see her actually take them even once in the entire show... so it seems to me they aren't critically important plot-wise.
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Postby Xard » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:40 am

NemZ wrote:It's in stage 56. She gives Rei a shot, not pills.

This scene makes very little sense, in any case. Honestly Sadamoto, WTF?


Typical Sadamoto fuckup ;)

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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:04 pm

Why bare hands, and what's the fuckup? That Sadamoto forgot he established it's a shot and not pills that keep Rei together?

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Postby majlund » Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:28 pm

Monk Ed wrote:Why bare hands

In the Eva-verse you strangle people with yours hands or not at all.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:25 pm

...and beyond that, just what sets Ritz off there?

That Rei simply knows about her relationship with Gendo? Is it maybe because she thinks she alluding to the mother/daughter situation?
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:38 pm

Strangulation for no reason? That sounds in line. I've never read the manga, but everything I've been told and shown about it has given me the impression that Sadamoto was somehow out to 'one-up' the original by erring on the side of the pointlessly hardcore.

(Manga spoilers)
.
.
.

Like eating Adam vs implanting, and Touji dying vs losing his leg.

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Postby NemZ » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:10 pm

Monk Ed wrote:Like eating Adam vs implanting, and Touji dying vs losing his leg.


We don't actually know how Adam was implanted in the anime.

Toji dying really doesn't affect the plot much, and I find it actually is a more reasonable outcome from the situation.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:15 pm

nemz wrote:We don't actually know how Adam was implanted in the anime.


ORLY?

Image


(...I take it you haven't seen the Director's Cuts then?)


Toji dying really doesn't affect the plot much, and I find it actually is a more reasonable outcome from the situation.


It turns Shinji into a nervous wreck/makes it hard for him to trust people far too soon in his character development or lack thereof.
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Postby NemZ » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:24 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:(...I take it you haven't seen the Director's Cuts then?)


no, I've seen them. My point is that we see the outcome, not the process.

It turns Shinji into a nervous wreck/makes it hard for him to trust people far too soon in his character development or lack thereof.


I don't think his reaction would be all that different. Being used to attempt to kill another, regardless of the severity of actual inflicted harm, is the issue here. Even if Toji wasn't permanently injured at all I expect Shinji would react the same, considering he didn't know the extent of the damage before delivering his threat.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:26 pm

no, I've seen them. My point is that we see the outcome, not the process.


It was grafted on his hand. And at any rate, this seems to be a moot point given....whatever this discussion's about.
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Postby Monk Ed » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:04 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:It was grafted on his hand. And at any rate, this seems to be a moot point given....whatever this discussion's about.

This discussion is now about Asuka shyly undressing herself in your avatar. No. This discussion is about Rei popping pills.

Do we ever see two separate shots of the same dresser that are divided by a wide span of time, and along with that, an implication as to whether or not she even touched the pills in the interim?

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Postby mrpanda » Tue Jul 22, 2008 3:57 pm

Something from reichu about pills looking unused in 23


+

Rei falling to bits in EOE


I see a connection !!!!!!!!!!!!!

LEPROSY MEDS !!!!!!!


Rei : Bits and pieces are falling off of me i think i may have leprosy !
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:13 pm

Monk Ed wrote:This discussion is now about Asuka shyly undressing herself in your avatar. No. This discussion is about Rei popping pills.


That was my way of saying "get back on topic bitches" seeing as the conversation got so far off topic already that I couldn't remember the original issue at hand.

Do we ever see two separate shots of the same dresser that are divided by a wide span of time, and along with that, an implication as to whether or not she even touched the pills in the interim?


I don't recall any implication of her touching the pills, no. Hopefully Reichu will pop in at some point and post that image from Groundwork so we can figure out that OR just what Rei was on.
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Postby Monk Ed » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:27 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:That was my way of saying

I know, I just was trying to be funny. :grin:

I don't recall any implication of her touching the pills, no. Hopefully Reichu will pop in at some point and post that image from Groundwork so we can figure out that OR just what Rei was on.

In ep17, when Shinji and Touji enter her apartment, Shinji looks over at the dresser and sees the pitcher and the meds. I never understood the significance of that shot. Now I'm wondering if maybe its significance is that Shinji is noticing the meds haven't been touched since he was last there. I suppose that depends on if we have a shot of them from his first visit.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:41 pm

I don't have screencaps on hand or anything, but I know they are shown, yes.

I remember a shot of the sunlight hitting the beaker/where the meds are while Shinji and Rei are in their staring contest.
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Rei's medication

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Postby Timstuff » Tue May 26, 2009 1:41 am

Rei being held together by medication was never really established in the anime, so I wouldn't hold to it as canon across the whole franchise. It's possible that Rei was taking pain pills for her pre-episode 1 injuries, but it looked to me like there was too much there just to be pain meds, and also there was the fresh looking RX bag full of unused pills. However, I think it's quite possible that the purpose of Rei's medication is not necessarily a physical one, but a psychological one.

In the alternate reality of episode 26 (the "Angelic Days-esque" scenario), the Rei we saw was not the quiet introvert that we knew from the rest of the series, but rather a somewhat hyperactive but healthy teenage girl. I know that it's an alternate reality so it shouldn't be taken too seriously, but what if the reason for Rei's unusual behavior is because this is Rei un-medicated? Think about it-- if Gendo wanted Rei to co-operate with his design for the apocalypse, if it were the Rei from e26 it would be pretty friggin' difficult. But if he keeps her in a zombied-out state through medication, she would probably take on what Gendo would consider a much more "agreeable" personality. Given the psychological nature of Evangelion's story, it would be pretty fitting to have an element of the story that deals with the use (or in Rei's case, I would argue misuse) of personality altering medications.

This subject is of some personal interest to me, since as a child I was diagnosed with ADD, and one doctor recomended treating it with Ritalin (to which thankfully, my mom politely said "up yours"). If Rei's medication was the primary reason for her rather vacant personality, then it only makes her story all the more tragic, and Gendo and even more evil bastard. What could have been an otherwise healthy, happy teenage girl ended up being turned into the doped-up puppet of a crazy SOB who wants to start the apocalypse. :boohoo:
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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue May 26, 2009 2:50 am

^
I don't know. I think it is easier to assume that Rei's detached personality was do to the fact that her soul has been split all over the place (Rei, Eva-00 and a fracture of her soul possibly remained inside Lilith).

Also, since i mentioned the issue of her soul: though this idea has not been elaborated upon, she basically carries around a soul in a body that was not designed to be neccesserily (sp?) compatible with that soul. This might result in the body not being able to "take it".

And lets think manipulative bastard for a bit: what is a better strategy to ensure long term loyalty? To have the one that is to be kept loyal take medication that would ensure her obedience by her self, or to have her body rigged (it is possible that Rei was intentionally given an imperfect body that could not be sustained without certain chemicals) in a way that would mean her death if she doesn't get her shots, thus providing a leash through which she can be yanked if needed?

One could argue that "But Rei wanted to die anyway!", but i don't think it's that easy. She was certainly at conflict with her own existence, but she also found solace in the fact that Gendo (and later, Shinji) has given her a purpose (that was her part in the "You depend on others to find value in your life." theme of NGE), thus she had at least something to enjoy in the fact that she lived. Lilith's soul longed for her own body and oblivion, but the person that was Rei Ayanami still had a desire to live.

Short version:
I think it was possible that she needed the medication to sustain her physical form, and that it's a neat idea story-wise.


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Postby Timstuff » Tue May 26, 2009 3:24 am

Well, that still doesn't really explain hyper happy Rei in e26. Also, how do we know that Rei hasn't been lied to about the nature of her medication? She might have been told that something terrible would happen if she goes off the pills, but Gendo and Ritsuko could easily have just told her that to keep her in place. If Rei decided to stop obeying it wouldn't be hard to have her killed and replaced with a fresh clone, so keeping her living in fear would be more about convenience than being an actual failsafe.

Also, I think it's open to debate as to whether Rei is a literal avatar for Lilith's soul, or if each Rei clone posses a soul of its own, but is kept in a blank state until the memories are uploaded. We saw during EoE that there were clearly 3 Reis present during Instrumentality, so that would imply to me that there may have been 3 Rei souls present. It it was one soul split between Lilith, Unit 00, and Rei, then Rei III should not have appeared as separate from Rei II, unless for some bizarre reason half of Rei II's soul got ported over to Rei III.

I don't really want to delve too deeply into the nature of Rei's soul though... I was simply pointing out that I think it's interesting that in e26 they specifically chose to show us a "healthy" version of Rei, who behaved in a way that was very different from the other episodes. I suppose you could chalk it up to her soul not being split between 3 different entities if that's the model you support, but I think it's equally possible-- and in my mind, a little more plausible-- that this is Rei in her natural state, when she's not being doped up by medication.
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