Eva00's Soul is (Not) Alone...in piloting? orami fanwanking?

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Eva00's Soul is (Not) Alone...in piloting? orami fanwanking?

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Postby TheAyanamiOtaku » Tue May 27, 2008 2:10 am

Okay so I was reading our lengthy and in-depth article on the soul of Eva00 and I thought about an alternate solution, but the original Eva00 thread was for people w/ "special access" so I decided to post my new idea here.

We all know that throughout Evangelion, Rei wanted to end her life. To return to nothingness, which I guess can be a sense of ultimate freedom.

Anyways, we've also seen that Kaworu can make Nigouki breakdance outside of the Entry Plug. If those abilities are exclusive to Seeds of Life, then Rei should have no problem piloting Zerogouki by herself. But she isn't sucked into the core b/c someone's already (partially) there, and if we assume that Rei I is the inhabitant, than that could explain Zerogouki's unpredictability. The two fight to move Zerogouki's extremities, and Rei II normally wins control, but a beserking Zerogouki would mean that Rei I would take full control of the Eva, as Yui-sama and Kyoko-sama would.

So back to the window-punching scenes. This is the part where my idea gets cross-examined by the evidence...

Gendo Window-Punching Scenes

why would Rei I try to kill gendo? b/c he didn't protect her against Naoko's rage?

Rei and Ritsuko WPS:

Is Rei I conditioned by Rei's constant yearn to kill herself? Is Rei I following what Rei II wants to do? b/c Rei II didn't flinch as the protective glass grew less stable.

Ritsuko is the one thing that I don't have much of an answer for if my hypothesis is correct. Rei I never knew about Ritsuko...did she? Unless she somehow came into contact with her or gathered knowledge from Rei II. If she did, then she would she be acting on her own accord and conclusions to try and attack Ritsuko? B/c I can't see any reason why Rei would want to kill Ritsuko...

Anyways late-night forum-goers, have at me!
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Postby Fazmotron » Tue May 27, 2008 7:53 am

I think one reason that came up earlier in another thread for Rei I wanting to kill Ritsuko was because she mistook her for Naoko.
They do look quite similar, except for the hair.
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Postby Shin-seiki » Tue May 27, 2008 8:34 am

Here, briefly, is my take: Rei 1 has Lilith's soul intact*. It is hard to say, based on available evidence, precisely to what extent she was aware of who and what she was (as compared to Kaworu, who seems to know that he is a vessel for Adam's soul, and can figure out who Rei is as soon as he lays eyes on her). But in #25 "the Case of Rei Ayanami", Rei 1 is depicted as the one who knows what is going on, and hints and nudges her later incarnations towards the truth.

Rei 1's soul seems to have ended up divided between Rei 2 and Unit-00. I believe this situation is analogous in some ways to the case of Asuka's mother and Unit-02, where a part of Kyoko's soul, that part that corresponded to her love for her daughter, ended up within Unit-02, leaving her mentally unbalanced and unable to recognize Asuka as her daughter. If you look at Rei 2, what seems to be missing from her personality? To me, the answer would be the instinct for self-preservation. I think that part of her ended up in Unit-00, hence its propensity to use its ATF to protect her, and moreover, that this 'soul fragment' correlates particularly with Rei 1's experience of helpless rage and resentment over being murdered by Dr. Akagi, hence the apparent grudge against Ritsuko (whom Unit-00 seems to mistake for Naoko)

As I have argued elsewhere, I believe that the apparent targeting of Gendo (in #05) and Rei (in #14) in the Unit-00 berserk incidents are actually red herrings, and that Ritsuko (who is the only target candidate that is present in the control booth in both cases) was the sole target of Unit-00's tantrums.
N.B.: "Unit-00 tried to attack me. I'm sure of it."

After the self destruction of Rei 2 and Unit-00, Rei's soul is put into another clone body, this is Rei 3. It would seem that Rei 3's soul is re-integrated (i.e. Rei 2 and the 'Rei 1 specific' fragment that was in Unit-00). She is still unaware of who she really is, but her encounter with Kaworu sets her on the path to self awareness, and in "the Case of Rei Ayanami" (which corresponds with the 'soak in the LCL pool' part of #25'), she figures out what is going on. Note also how in the case of Kyoko/Unit-02, her soul seems to have re-integrated after Kyoko hanged herself, and that after Kaworu is squished, his (i.e. Adam's) soul apparently ends up in the Adam embryo in Gendo's hand; thus it appears that divided and/or disembodied souls tend to end up where they need to be as the plot demands...


*i.e., I don't buy the idea that there is some 'residual soul' left in Lilith's body down in Terminal Dogma that welcomes Rei 3 back in #26'.

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Postby AuraTwilight » Tue May 27, 2008 1:20 pm

Rei 1's soul seems to have ended up divided between Rei 2 and Unit-00. I believe this situation is analogous in some ways to the case of Asuka's mother and Unit-02, where a part of Kyoko's soul, that part that corresponded to her love for her daughter, ended up within Unit-02, leaving her mentally unbalanced and unable to recognize Asuka as her daughter. If you look at Rei 2, what seems to be missing from her personality? To me, the answer would be the instinct for self-preservation.


Indeed. And when Rei 3 is born as the completed soul in a clone body, one of her last lines in "The Case of Rei Ayanami" is along the lines of,
Rei wrote:I wanted to die. I wanted to disappear. But now...now I fear it.
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Postby Dartz » Tue May 27, 2008 3:44 pm

There's obviously something in their that either Rei doesn't want in her head, or Unit 00 doesn't want in it's head. There is something in their that is terrifying... Unit 00 looks like it's trying to break free, and like it's in a lot of pain

Didn't Ritsuko say that the berserker thing was caused by emotional instabiltity on Rei's part?

Shinji also had a vision of Rei when he synced with Unit 00...

Hmm... it'd make sense then that Unit 00 contains some part of Rei, and it'd be some part of herself that Rei would be terrified of, and not want to know.

But what would that be I wonder?
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Postby Sachi » Tue May 27, 2008 8:21 pm

Dartz wrote:Didn't Ritsuko say that the berserker thing was caused by emotional instabiltity on Rei's part?

Having half a soul would make me emotional too.
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Postby child of Lilith » Tue May 27, 2008 8:34 pm

Sachi_13 wrote:
Dartz wrote:Didn't Ritsuko say that the berserker thing was caused by emotional instabiltity on Rei's part?

Having half a soul would make me emotional too.


Ritsuko said that mite be the reason, but she was not completely sure. As far as I can remember it’s never said what’s really in Unit 00, so all we can really do is speculate. Thou it would make since if part of Liliths soul was in their.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue May 27, 2008 8:36 pm

They do look quite similar, except for the hair.


Actually, there's this one screencap from 00's POV where Ritsuko has brown hair instead of blonde when she's attacking.

Anyway I'd say the reason Rei 2 wouldn't just control the Eva on her own is she simply wasn't aware she had that power. By the time Kaworu showed up, Rei (3) was whole (the parts of Rei 2 and Rei 1's souls inside her).
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Postby TheAyanamiOtaku » Tue May 27, 2008 8:50 pm

Ah. I was under the impression that she knew who she was...and that she was keeping it a secret from everyone. Damn, all this time too....
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Postby sadsadshinji » Wed May 28, 2008 12:10 am

Would the berserk 00 also be from the conflict from the two parts of the soul being partially put together, rather than hatred for Ritsuko? 00's actions look like it is having a splitting headache (different aspects of the soul vying for control?)

If the basis of Rei II's lack of self preservation was due to her soul being split between 00 and Rei II's body, does that shed light upon Rei III's responses to Gendo's glasses and 'betrayal' of Gendo?

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Postby Sachi » Wed May 28, 2008 12:19 am

Do the punches even have to be directed at something? I agree with SSS that Unit-00 was having a conflict with herself. The soul of Lilith in a clone of Adam. That should be reason enough to start punching walls. Doesn't have to be directed at someone. I've never seen Rei to be the "grudge-holding" type. Attacking Ritsuko, mistaking her for Naoko, because she strangled her as Rei I?
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Postby child of Lilith » Wed May 28, 2008 1:23 am

sadsadshinji wrote:Would the berserk 00 also be from the conflict from the two parts of the soul being partially put together, rather than hatred for Ritsuko? 00's actions look like it is having a splitting headache (different aspects of the soul vying for control?)

If the basis of Rei II's lack of self preservation was due to her soul being split between 00 and Rei II's body, does that shed light upon Rei III's responses to Gendo's glasses and 'betrayal' of Gendo?


I believe Rei II seemed to have a lack of self-preservation because she knew she was a clone and therefore if she died she would just be brought back again. After all she did tell Shinji that she could easily be replaced, plus her finals words to him before they began their joint operation against the angel could very well be interpreted as a final farewell to him. As for her reaction to the glasses and her subsequent betrayal of Gendo, I think it simply wasn’t worth it to her anymore, after having made such a heroic sacrifice, to go along with his plans and she just decided to do her own thing. I don’t believe she ever had much hate for Gendo, except for that time with the glasses, because she had known all along what his final goal was and had long ago decided of her own accord to go along with it. He after all was the only person in the world to really care about her or show her any kindness so she probably decide as long as she was in this world she mite as well return the favor and help him out. However the advent of Shinji and the subsequent time they spent together changed all that.

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Postby Ornette » Wed May 28, 2008 2:47 am

Sachi_13 wrote:Do the punches even have to be directed at something? I agree with SSS that Unit-00 was having a conflict with herself. The soul of Lilith in a clone of Adam. That should be reason enough to start punching walls. Doesn't have to be directed at someone. I've never seen Rei to be the "grudge-holding" type. Attacking Ritsuko, mistaking her for Naoko, because she strangled her as Rei I?

It could have punched any of the 4 walls, instead it picked the one where you can see that there are people behind, twice. And it punched the windows, not just any part of the wall.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Wed May 28, 2008 1:39 pm

Ayanami wrote: that she knew who she was...and that she was keeping it a secret from everyone.


Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. are you talking about Rei 1 knowing her own identity (Which is most likely.)? Or Rei 1 knowing she was hitting Ritsuko? With hitting Ritsuko, it's hard to say if she knew it was Ritsuko or thought it was Naoko. Either way, they look alike and Rei 1 would have been getting her revenge with one of the Akagis so...

sadsadShinji wrote:does that shed light upon Rei III's responses to Gendo's glasses and 'betrayal' of Gendo?


YES. Note how emotional Rei 3 nearly immediately is (crying while breaking Gendou's glasses) compared to the subtle emotions of Rei 2.

Sachi wrote:I've never seen Rei to be the "grudge-holding" type. Attacking Ritsuko, mistaking her for Naoko, because she strangled her as Rei I?


While Rei 2 and 3 don't seem to hold grudges, Rei 1's personality from what we see of her is very different from the later two. For one, she seems cynical with being a harbinger of truth/possibly knowing her identity as Lilith. Because of this, it really wouldn't surprise me that Rei 1 would do something like that, although I do agree it's hard to imagine Rei 2 or 3 doing that sort of thing.

You make a VERY good point with this:
The soul of Lilith in a clone of Adam. That should be reason enough to start punching walls.


though. ;)
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Postby Sachi » Wed May 28, 2008 3:44 pm

Ornette wrote:It could have punched any of the 4 walls, instead it picked the one where you can see that there are people behind, twice. And it punched the windows, not just any part of the wall.

That was the wall it was already facing though. Why go out of the way to punch a different wall, when you already have a good one right in front of you?

SSD wrote:While Rei 2 and 3 don't seem to hold grudges, Rei 1's personality from what we see of her is very different from the later two. For one, she seems cynical with being a harbinger of truth/possibly knowing her identity as Lilith. Because of this, it really wouldn't surprise me that Rei 1 would do something like that, although I do agree it's hard to imagine Rei 2 or 3 doing that sort of thing.

I can agree with this though.
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Postby Ornette » Wed May 28, 2008 5:40 pm

Sachi_13 wrote:
Ornette wrote:It could have punched any of the 4 walls, instead it picked the one where you can see that there are people behind, twice. And it punched the windows, not just any part of the wall.

That was the wall it was already facing though. Why go out of the way to punch a different wall, when you already have a good one right in front of you?

Actually, it does punch another wall. After it specifically went after the windowed area on the first wall.

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Postby TheAyanamiOtaku » Wed May 28, 2008 7:37 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean.


I mean that I thought that Rei II knew exactly who she was (Lilith), but was distressed that she was in a cloned body/vessel and not in her own. You said

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Anyway I'd say the reason Rei 2 wouldn't just control the Eva on her own is she simply wasn't aware she had that power.


So I had to correct my beliefs...unless...wait how do you know that?
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Postby sadsadshinji » Thu May 29, 2008 1:33 am

I dont think the window punching was just an accident; it seems a bit too directed than just random flailing (every hit was pretty much on the window itself, before 00 decided to smash its head against a wall).

Did Rei I really know her identity? I guess that would fit in with her taunting of Naoko (calling her a hag, over and over), but the scene seems to be heavily influenced by Naoko's own mind and sudden realization that Rei I bears a stunning resemblance to Yui. If anything, I think Rei I was more just downright insensitive.

In addition, does Rei have genetic memory, or is her memory just based in the periodic tube-times that she spends down in central dogma?

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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu May 29, 2008 12:29 pm

I would say they just back up her memories and download them. If she had genetic memory, she'd remember some stuff from Yui.
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Postby sadsadshinji » Thu May 29, 2008 12:33 pm

Rei II seems to have some response to that though (when Shinji says "You'd make a good housewife" or "The way you did that was very motherly"). I was under the impression that these statements were provoking some kind of thought process involving Yui, but I suppose they can simply be due to the fact that people usually dont talk to Rei.


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