Why is Shinji hated?

[Themaninblack]

If Shinji were to move a bit faster before hand, they would've gotten to the cross door long before the soilders and she would've never gotten shot.

Well, there's a thousand "what ifs" you could ask. If they had moved a bit slower, then the soldiers would've likely have moved on and not been there either.

The problem with EoE that most people hate and simply refuse to recognize is that it's a time when circumstances and nature are completely dictating the action. There was nothing any character could've done to change anything as forces beyond their control were already set in action. Shinji was just a pawn that had no power until he was given it by GNR.

Here's another time when NGE goes against the grain of traditional anime, as heroes are generally given the power, from somewhere to overcome overwhelming odds. To change the forces of nature that's working against them. The underdog beats the giants attempting to crush them. Not so in NGE. Each character does exactly as much as they're allowed in terms of physical and psychological ability - and some people get pissed that they didn't do more than they could.

Still dosen't excuse Shinji for his actions but your right. People blame Shinji for 3I for happening for as you said...no god damn reason.

[Mr. Tines]

Your hate seems irrational, perhaps you sould take the time to ask why it really exists.

For the record, it's disgust, rather than hate.

And it's probably because I am one of those people who do have to keep on putting one foot in front of the other until death us do part.

[Eva Yojimbo]

it's probably because I am one of those people who do have to keep on putting one foot in front of the other until death us do part.

As do we all. But if one never stops for introspection, and to try and fix problems in the mechanics, you'll likely end up tripping up, falling flat on your face and, even worse, perhaps taking someone else out in the process.

[Mr. Tines]

As do we all.

So, which which disabled family members are you having to care for?

[Eva Yojimbo]

How does that relate to what I replied to what you said? That because you're having to do so you don't have the "luxury" to break down like Shinji did?

[mrpanda]

Awww gawd i should take cover, angry eva fans are more dangerous than any other anime fans *gulp*

Mr Tines is of a different generation to a lot of us, one where just carrying on was the only thing you could do and i agree with him, tbh its the way nature works (survival of the fittest) and if you dont carry on what else can you do.
Although i believe that it wasnt shinjis fault and he was kinda helpless in EoE i mean with all the stuff he went through im surprised he didnt break down like Asuka, i mean how many people go through as much shit as Shinji at 14.

[Eva Yojimbo]

one where just carrying on was the only thing you could do and i agree with him... and if you dont carry on what else can you do.

There's times for carrying on and then there's times for realizing when you can't carry on any longer without fixing a major problem within yourself. Carrying on with a broken psyche is like trying to drive a 20 year old, beat up car that might break down and explode any second. At best you're endangering yourself, at worse, you're endangering everyone on the freeway in your immediate vicinity.

[Themaninblack]

one where just carrying on was the only thing you could do and i agree with him... and if you dont carry on what else can you do.

There's times for carrying on and then there's times for realizing when you can't carry on any longer without fixing a major problem within yourself. Carrying on with a broken psyche is like trying to drive a 20 year old, beat up car that might break down and explode any second. At best you're endangering yourself, at worse, you're endangering everyone on the freeway in your immediate vicinity.

There in lays the problem, even if Shinji had carryed on, 3I would still have happened because he dosen't vaule his life yet. He can't get all GAR and save the world. He went through to much. And in the end anyway he fixes that problem and moves forwrad like Tines wanted...Shinji just wasn't just a strong enough character until the very end that is, to do more than react or shut himself off from the rest of the world, when things get shitty. In the end though does. Thats all we can ask.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

And it's probably because I am one of those people who do have to keep on putting one foot in front of the other until death us do part.

He did exactly that from the begining of the series up till he crushed Kaworu like a bug. I have a challange for you, and no I don't seriously expect you to go through with it, go kill one of your friends and see if you can really carry on like nothing happened. I assure you no person with any semblance of a conscience can. So then I ask what you wanted him to do? Pile on more emotional baggage by wholesale slaughter of people that think they're saving the world? Yeah that'll solve everything. There was no victory to be had there, NONE! He could only delay them at best. What is your great answer for this dilemma?

[peripateia]

i felt Shinji's inabilities weren't entirely his fault...his environment shaped his weak personality/resolve; granted Asuka had the same experiences, but she WAS a child prodigy and perhaps built more confidence as she grew, unlike Shinji who never felt he had any talent at all. Shinji's actions in eoe were despicable; but i can't blame the kid, he was never strong, and after being forced to kill the only person he has left to relate to, depression seems natural. the burden of piloting eva was just too great for him during eoe.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Tines once responded to Shinji's mental state after killing Kaworu by saying get up and rub some dirt in it. Needless to say I can't help but find his views on this topic patently absurd and I can't help but think there's a lot more to it that he isn't fessing up to.

[peripateia]

perhaps a strong person who didnt need kaworu as much as Shinji did could have "rubbed some dirt in it", but ...its Shinji! i cant blame a person for not being able to benchpress 200 lbs if that person's never worked out in his entire life.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

I don't think so. There is a difference between watching someone die and actually killing them. As I already said no one with a conscience can ever carry on like nothing happened after killing someone you care deeply about.

[peripateia]

well yes i agree...but if Shinji hadnt formed such a lasting friendship with kaworu, he might have had an easier time during eoe;unfortunately he did, and the story is much more interesting than a standard good vs. evil plot. Shinji's a hard person to like because of his distinctly anti-hero characteristics; but for me he's hard to hate as well; instead i pity him.

[Sailor Star Dust]

Well, there's a thousand "what ifs" you could ask.

There's one I've been dying to ask for some time, actually: If Asuka had said something like "Yes" as opposed to "...No." in the P3II kitchen scene, would Shinji still have snapped?


And Reichu, I love you.

[UrsusArctos]

It wasn't a lasting friendship: Kaworu was his last hope for any form of friendship, which is why Shinji latched on to him. Then...bam! He's an Angel, and Shinji needs to charge all the way and pop his head off. Who in the world would be able to live through an experience like that and get on with it?

I agree with Jimbo and AEF, because I've tried carrying on with a thoroughly wrecked psyche, and it landed up with me going insane slowly, without realizing it, and lying to myself and everyone else that I was fine and strong and everything else. I don't dare repeat the results here.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

@peripateia, are you trying to imply a strong person doesn't need friends?

Who in the world would be able to live through an experience like that and get on with it?

No one that is being completely honest with themselves. Which is honestly what I think the issue is here.

[UrsusArctos]

Or rather, only someone who dumps his conscience like a sack of potatoes.

It becomes easier to understand why Gendo is the way he is. Yui was to Gendo what Kaworu was to Shinji. But Shinji was much more of a child and went into near-suicidal depression. Gendo, the older one, flipped his lid and ripped out his own conscience. I've been between the two states myself, so I know what it's really like.

[Eva Yojimbo]

As I already said no one with a conscience can ever carry on like nothing happened after killing someone you care deeply about.

How many war veterans are basket cases after and sometimes during the war? I'm sure they had more than one person completely break down mentally even in the field.

[majlund]

How many war veterans are basket cases after and sometimes during the war? I'm sure they had more than one person completely break down mentally even in the field.

After 60 days of continuous combat, 98% of all surviving soldiers will have become psychiatric casualties of one kind or another. The remaining 2% have a predisposition towards aggressive psychopathic personalities.

This is from a WW2 study by Swank and Marchand quoted in "On Killing" by D.Grossman. Just rotating units out of combat for a couple of days every 2-3 weeks offsets this problem greatly.

Now before anyone just grabs this and applies it to Shinjis (and the rest of Nerv) situation. This is when man tries to kill his fellow man.
Conflict between different species allows for fight or flight, while conflict amongst your own allows posture (threat), submittance, fight or flight. Kaworu is the only angel which resembles a human and therefore puts psychological pressure on Shinji, yet there's still room for denial (he's been told Kaworu is an angel, he's sitting in a beserkerprone EVA, his fingers slipped...). Fighting the rest of the angels poses no bigger strain than hunting dangerous animals. Also note that as combat experience increases, fear of injury and death is replaced by fear of letting your comrades down. This makes it almost absurd that Shinji doesn't rush into the final combat to stand side-by-side with his war-buddies.

Shinji breaks down because the story needs him to.