Rei and Kaworu and "Misaimed Fandom"

[Incisivis]

Have you visited [url]http://www.tvtropes.org[/url] ? You should...it's basically an attempt to list, describe, and title every trope in fiction ever, with examples.

Here is the entry forMisaimed Fandom, explained as "Then, in the writer's eyes, the loudest part of the fandom completely missed the point. They saw subtext where there was none, or else they didn't see the subtext, but only the text-text. They liked the text-text."

An example listed:

"Like many aspects of the show, Rei Ayanami in Neon Genesis Evangelion was a Deconstruction: in her case, of the stereotypical Creepy Emotionless Girl. The result? Three words: "ZOMGF TEH Rei!!!!11!1". Director Hideaki Anno took personal issue that Rei was fetishized among otaku for that exact same reason.

Likewise in the same series, the enigmatic single-episode character Kaworu became popular, to the surprise of writers who admitted they were writing him to be unsettling to other characters. The manga (made after the anime) greatly compensates for this; for example the anvilicious scene where he puts a starving kitten out of its misery without blinking an eye, just to make his character creepier. (This has not, however, affected his much sooner planned appearance in the future remake of the show.)"

Personally, I'm tempted to dismiss it, because right after this, the person who contributed to the entry talked about the "EoE as giant bird-flip" theory right afterwards,

"In fact, the whole of End of Evangelion movie is frequently interpreted as a vicious retort to the fans who complained about the way the TV series actually ended, plus Anno's own disgusted conflict with the otaku lifestyle that had previously endeared him to fans. The original ending of the series, as planned by Hideaki Anno and revealed in the film, was even more confusing -- and just to drive the point home, Anno reworked it into a Kill Em All Downer Ending. (This intention is marked pretty clearly in the film; several death threats received by Studio Gainax after the end of the TV series are flashed on the screen at one point, with the clear implication that these people deserve a Take That.) "

, but also seem to understand that EoE wasn't actually made just to piss off the fans, while still seeming to imply that those motivations at least went partway into its creation. All very confusing.

So I'm also wondering if anybody, *anybody* out there has any idea of where this notion about Rei and Kaworu and author's intent might have come from, or if it's just another of those things.

[universalperson]

Tv tropes actually got me into Eva fandom. However, I suspect that we need to use our uber-knowledge powers to rewrite certain Evangelion entries.

[Reichu]

So I'm also wondering if anybody, *anybody* out there has any idea of where this notion about Rei and Kaworu and author's intent might have come from...

If they can't provide SAUCE, they made it up.

[Sailor Star Dust]

TV Tropes Wiki is just as bad as Leaky, cause in point, see and laugh at the screw-ups in Shinji's article: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ShinjiIkari

The mistakes in the above is all the more reason for the EG site to NOT fall into such traps and be as well-written as we can make it.

Also: LOL She's in a Coma I think this has another error, as I do NOT recall Shinji *ahem* "getting any on her".

On the plus side, some people on site seem to "get" the Soul-splitting and how Lilith's soul is both within Rei 2 and Zerogoki. So that's good at least.

But to answer the topic at hand: Clearly, they're making shit up or are misinformed fans.


Anyway, since this topic was created, I wanted to ask something else
because I don't think it's worthy to have it's own topic: The book Japanimerica briefly mentions Eva several times.

On one page (somewhere in the 100s, I believe), a person being interviewed mentioned how Studios would borrow/use ideas from Doujinshi about their works. A paraphrased line: "Director Hideaki Anno of Evangelion would often use concepts or ideas from Doujinshi, his way of winking back at them and saying "Here, guys!""

What I wanna know is, has anybody heard this before and is there a SAUCE for it?

[Dr. Nick]

Director Hideaki Anno took personal issue that Rei was fetishized among otaku for that exact same reason.

Yeah, I'd like to know the source of this info, too...

Then again, our site claims the same thing (even though it is on a sandbox page):

The series creators themselves actually really hate these things, because they have literally nothing to do with the characters or story they created, and most often, are things the characters would never do.

[Reichu]

That should be edited out of whatever article it's in, then.

@SSD: I have no idea. I've never heard of that, either. I think there is one interview with Anno in a shounen ai doujinshi anthology -- that might be a place to look for SAUCE.

[universalperson]

Anyway, since this topic was created, I wanted to ask something else
because I don't think it's worthy to have it's own topic: The book Japanimerica briefly mentions Eva several times.

On one page (somewhere in the 100s, I believe), a person being interviewed mentioned how Studios would borrow/use ideas from Doujinshi about their works. A paraphrased line: "Director Hideaki Anno of Evangelion would often use concepts or ideas from Doujinshi, his way of winking back at them and saying "Here, guys!""

What I wanna know is, has anybody heard this before and is there a SAUCE for it?

I know where you're getting at SSD, and I want you to stop thinking those right now, or we'll both be horribly dissapointed.

[V]

Well Incisivis, I'm afraid we cannot argue with this fellow: as you know, as soon as anyone, anywhere posts anything on the internets, that thing becomes a Fact.

On an unrelated note, everyone please visit the EvaPedia!

[Kaysow]

That site is wrong about a lot of things, but thank you for sharing anyway. It's very entertaining =)

[NAveryW]

I think there is one interview with Anno in a shounen ai doujinshi anthology -- that might be a place to look for SAUCE.

Is that the place where he said NGE was a "masturbation show" or something like that?

I'm pretty sure an interview in a shounen ai book would probably shed some light on Anno's intentions with Kaworu's subtext, so it's worth looking into as much as, say, the Proposal or CI.

[Eva Yojimbo]

Like a lot of things, I think there's a hint of truth in however large of a dung heap that is. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that Anno's relationship with the otaku community and, in particular, their fetishes and fascinations isn't quite... kosher. It's certainly no secret what Anno really wanted NGE to be, and I think it's very likely he was/is/has been upset with those people who'd rather focus on the completely superficial aspects. I mean, Rei really doesn't work as a real narrative character (IMO)... but that's what people love her has. How is it not possible to see what a giant, walking metaphor she is?

[Reichu]

Is that the place where he said NGE was a "masturbation show" or something like that?

I don't know. That's one of the ones I don't have.

Aaron, on the other hand......

[Incisivis]

So I'm also wondering if anybody, *anybody* out there has any idea of where this notion about Rei and Kaworu and author's intent might have come from...

If they can't provide SAUCE, they made it up.

I figured.

[Dr. Nick]

That should be edited out of whatever article it's in, then.

I'll be happy to, if you say it indeed is horsecrap.

[Sandoz]

I once heard that Asuka was originally intended to be the "iconic" Eva girl and Anno was surprised when the fanbase rabidly latched onto Rei instead, but I can't recall the SAUCE so it probably isn't true.

[Bluespade]

That sounds like common sense to me.