Series Ending, or Movie Ending?

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Series Ending, or Movie Ending?

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Postby Karma Burn » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:33 pm

Man, I hate raining on peoples' parades, because I know this one will probably rip this newborn community board in two.

Personally, I'm all for the TV ending. It's not that I didn't like the movie ending, I thought it was cool too. But the movie left me asking more questions than the TV ending did. I thought that the TV ending was a much more fulifulling finish to the series because Shinji learned his lesson. In the movie Shinji doesn't learn anything about operating in the world or dealing with people. To me it felt as though the movie picked you up and then dropped you at the very end.
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Postby Dave » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:43 pm

It seems to me that the TV ending depicts what goes on during everyone's own mind during third impact while the movie ending shows what happens in reality.
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Postby MongolSquad » Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:54 pm

Dave wrote:It seems to me that the TV ending depicts what goes on during everyone's own mind during third impact while the movie ending shows what happens in reality.


first of all in the tv ending Shinji ACCEPTED human complementry, in the movie he rejected it and was able to wish for his own world. theres a big difference, but yes, the tv ending was about what everyone, mainly Shinji was thinkin.

and for my opinion....

i have to go with the movie because:

1. you kinda had more of an idea of what the hell was going on. in the movie it took place in reality. in the tv ending it was all in Shinji's mind which allowed a lot of weird things (im not saying the movie was not weird either) but the tv ending was rather confusing at some points.

2. the movie explained things about third impact. the tv ending really was focusing on Shinji's internal strife

3. battle scenes! :D

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Postby Nephilim » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:11 pm

I think what happens is this:
You see the TV ending first and you say "it sucks, it doesn't answer anything".
Then you see the movie and you say "that was awesome, but this feeling sucks"
Then you see the TV ending again, and you say "i love it, because is happier"
This happens because the movie answers all our questions about the plot, and the TV ending answers the questions that the movie left, of what happens inside the mind of the characters.


In the TV ending Shinji doesn't accept complementation !!!!!

At the end Misato says to Shinji:
Misato: Considering that, the real world itself is not always bad.
Shinji: The real world might not always be bad.


He accepts to live in the REAL world not in a fake one. He realizes that he has to learn to love himself to love others and to be happy.
And also, we can see that the room in wich he is, starts to brake, meaning that he breaks free of the instrumentality (kind of)

I think that the TV ending shows what happens inside all carachter minds at different times of EoE, not necessarily during 3rd impact.
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Postby Crazyman42 » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:25 pm

I think the two endings shouldn't be separated. The T.V ending is more character driven, while the ending to the movie is more story driven. Since the natural opnion of most people is that character driven plots are more popular than story driven. Since Evangelion is a a combination of both character and story, it would seem that there would be two endings.

Personally I prefer the TV ending because he's trapped within his own world.

My personal opnion is that the TV ending is what really happens, but the Movie ending is what NERV was planning and what would have happened if Shinji hadn't trapped himself within his own body.

In a way Shinji saved the world.
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Postby Dave » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:29 pm

Crazyman42 wrote:if Shinji hadn't trapped himself within his own body.

Uh.. I'm kind of thinking that was just symbolism in the last two episodes. He didn't really trap himself in his own body...
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Postby chocomanji » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:46 pm

I have to say being an artist, I kind of like the TV ending more for its visual presentation...lots of different methods used to represent what's going on in the character's minds. Very creative in my opinion.

Though, the movie is more entertaining as a whole than the last two episodes...but Eva always seemed more than just mere entertainment.
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Postby Mr.Guy » Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:51 pm

I have to say I like EoE more... but only slightly, very slighty. I would've liked the TV ending more, but Asuka doesn't kick whale ass in that one :D .

Plus, I was always a sucker for the happy endings (EoE happy!? Blasphemy!). I always looked at it like this: The TV is if Shinji accepted Instrumentality. EoE is when he rejected it.

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:16 pm

I felt this was more apropriate as a discussion, so I moved it and changed the topic title.

Personnally, I prefered the series ending, it was more psychologically oriented, and really delved into the character issues, which were ultimately more important than any physical conflict. True, the series ending is somewhat dissapointing as the predominant conflict was never resolved, and I like the fact that End of Eva fleshes that out. But I still prefer the series ending, for what its worth.

And I do believe the endings are divergent, as I've most likely stated numerous times. I like the TV ending where Shinji accepted instrumentality, rather than the movie ending where he rejected it.
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Re: Series Ending, or Movie Ending?

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Postby Quiddity » Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:31 pm

Karma Burn wrote:Man, I hate raining on peoples' parades, because I know this one will probably rip this newborn community board in two.

Personally, I'm all for the TV ending. It's not that I didn't like the movie ending, I thought it was cool too. But the movie left me asking more questions than the TV ending did. I thought that the TV ending was a much more fulifulling finish to the series because Shinji learned his lesson. In the movie Shinji doesn't learn anything about operating in the world or dealing with people. To me it felt as though the movie picked you up and then dropped you at the very end.


Of course he did, he realized that although at times he couldn't deal with others and wanted to be all on his own, in actuality his interaction with other people was something he needed. His psyche certainly didn't get the attention it got in the last 2 TV episodes, but thats because they already covered that for us in such detail that not as much was needed.

I personally consider the Eva TV ending among the worst ever made in anime. Its alright as support with EOE as the ending, but as the sole ending, its horrific. EOE is the best anime movie I've ever seen, far and away the better ending.
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Postby Asterix » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:11 pm

I'm all for both, too. I loved the series one - mind games "entertain" me in that they do a very good job at keeping me interested, and thinking about it after the fact. Getting to see inside the heads of the characters while not knowing exactly what is going on outside their heads facinated me, for whatever reason.

I also loved the movie ending for a few reasons - one, we got to see how the buildup ended, along with how third impact occured; and also because Asuka finally got her moment in the spotlight to kick some production Eva arse. :wink:
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Postby coff » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:17 pm

I prefer the movie ending, but I do enjoy the series ending as well. Of course the first time I saw the series ending I was like "WTF"

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:26 pm

I don't recall at what point, but the night I watched 25-26 of the series, I did scream in frustration at the television.
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Postby Dave » Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:32 pm

It just does not feel like the show is over after you watch the last two series episodes. For better or for worse, the movie ended it.
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Postby houtaru » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:17 am

I prefer the movie ending. The TV ending is good, but anti-climatic after episodes 22-24 which were so dramatic. You can tell the TV ending was rushed, had substandard animation, and even repeats plot lines we already knew about - almost like a 'clip show' (episode 25 especially). This removes the viewer somewhat from the fantasy.

I do, however believe that the movie and the TV ending are the same or concurrent, as Anno has confirmed. In the episode 26, the characters teach Shinji that reality is relative. Why bother if he's going to be complemented out of reality? If Shinji did accept compementation in episode 26, then the entire series really has no lesson, or moral to show us. Shinji didn't really learn anything, nor does he change if he gives up. Accepting complementation, Shinji would be giving up on the real world. Do you believe this is what Anno was trying to say: That we should give up on reality?

The movie is much better. It provides a great message that reality is not as hard as you see it, and that you can view it in many different ways. Yes, it gets a bit pretentious at times, but it has the courage to ask tough questions and give no concrete answers. You must find the answers for yourself. I like movies that believe i'm inteligent enough to find those answers.

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Postby Nephilim » Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:08 am

I also believe that the two endings ar related.

The TV ending shows all that is happening inside the minds of all main characters of the series, at different times of EoE.

For example, we can see that that this two scenes are related, and happening at the same time:
Image
In TV ep. 25 we see what Rei was thinking in that moment of EoE, all her fears to complementation, and her fear to dissapear.

And here is practically the same, when Gendou calls Rei:
Image

And this two scenes are the same:
Image
Where we can see Asuka at the bottom of the lake.

Also we can see the deaths of Misato and Ritsuko:
Image

In this scene in TV episode 25 we can see when complementation starts for Shinji, and what he feels while he turns to LCL:
Image

And Gendou explains complementation saying this:
"No, It's not that everything returns to nothingness.
It's nothing but returning everything to the beginning.
Nothing but returning things to the mother which
has long since been lost.
All the minds become one mind, obtaining peace forever.
Nothing but that."


Then, if Shinji accepted complementation...
Why he says that he wants to exist, and he wants to be himself?:
Misato: Considering that, the real world itself is not always bad.
Shinji: The real world might not always be bad. But, i hate myself.
Misato: If you know yourself, you can be kind to others.
Shinji: I hate myself.
But, I might be able to love myself.
I might be allowed to stay here.
Yes. I am nothing but I.
I am I. I wish to be I.
I want to stay here!
I can stay here!


Shinji chooses to live in the real world, not in a fake happiness in wich everybody are one. And he learns how to live in the real world.

In essence, the two endings are the same, but the TV ending is a happier version than the movie, but not different in plot.

The TV ending is a bunch of fragments of the characters' minds in different parts of the end of evangelion: before, during, and after 3rd impact.

(im sorry if i put too many images)
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Postby bp32 » Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:53 am

I think the similarity in scences is due to the fact that the ending they wanted was EoE--so they had already began sketching and storyboarding it out. Then when they ran out of time/money/(whatever happened) they incorporated some of what they had been working on. Whether or not they knew they would be able to do the ending 'right' afterwards I don't know, but I think its just two different versions of the same process (not necessarily simultaneous) using some of the same imagery/ideas...
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Postby Karma Burn » Thu Jun 24, 2004 10:07 am

Whether or not Shinji accepts the contemplation in the TV ending, I believe, is up to viewer interpretation. But what everyone needs to recognize is that the TV ending and the movie ending are two different endings. The movie ending does not support the TV ending. It's an alternate ending.

Again, for me the TV ending is the perfect ending to the series. It finalizes and resolves all of the main characters' inner conflicts. Evangelion is driven by it's characters. The show is interesting because hero's don't act like cookiecutter heroes, they act like normal people. They are normal people with normal feelings, normal fears and normal neuroses.

Now, as far as it goes, I highly doubt anyone is going to convert to the opposing side in this discussion. That wasn't the point of the topic. I just wanted to know how everyone felt about the endings. Frankly, I'm just surprised it took so long for the subject to be brought up.
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Postby Nephilim » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:19 am

bp32 wrote:I think the similarity in scences is due to the fact that the ending they wanted was EoE--so they had already began sketching and storyboarding it out. Then when they ran out of time/money/(whatever happened) they incorporated some of what they had been working on.


bp32 is right. I think they had the story for the EoE, but they couldn't do it, so they made another ending.
But why doing a complete different ending using some of the ideas of the EoE?
I think they saw that they couldn't do the ending they wanted so they do a different ending, but related to the other, a more psychological ending.
I mean, if you put attention in the TV ending there is nothing different or opposite to the EoE. In fact, all the dialogs fits perfectly to different moments in the movie.
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:53 pm

I like to think that you can watch episodes 1-24, then watch The End of Eva up until the point where Shinji begins to dream. Then you can switch over to the TV series. I still hold fast to the belief that the endings are different, but they do intertwine in some aspects.
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