Zankoku na tenshi no you ni, shounen yo shinwa ni nare!

[Dave]

Does the cruel angel refer to Lucifer? If so, is this suggesting that it is Shinji become a 'legend' like him? Really, I think I'm just being an idiot here, but what other cruel angel could they be reffering to?

[aranami]

How about the Watchers
http://reluctant-messenger.com/1enoch01 ... #Chapter07

[Reichu]

Does the cruel angel refer to Lucifer?

I suppose it's possible, being as they bother to include a depiction of him in the opening. Here is some crap I wrote about that.

I have no idea what the "Cruel Angel's Thesis" would be referring to, though.

[Dave]

(and often, incorrectly, as "Lucifer", due to a misreading of Isaiah 14:12).

Please explain.

[Reichu]

(and often, incorrectly, as "Lucifer", due to a misreading of Isaiah 14:12).

Please explain.

Lucifer ("light giver") -- erroneously equated with the fallen angel (Satan) due to a misreading of Isaiah 14:12: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning," an apostrophe which applied to Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon.

From The Dictionary of Angels, which I have in my lap here. More info can be found through the wonder that is Google.

[Dave]

So the true name of the angel Satan once was is Sammael (or Samael)?

[Reichu]

So the true name of the angel Satan once was is Sammael (or Samael)?

You bet. I don't think he ever really STOPPED being Sammael; "Satan" is just a descriptive title that means "adversary."

[Dark FireStar]

In the bible dosent it say that Lucifer is the angel of music/praise?

[the_seventh_child]

In the bible dosent it say that Lucifer is the angel of music/praise?

i think the bible says that Lucifer is one of the followers of Satan..
However "Dante's Inferno" of Dante says some intersting stuff about it..

[Kiel]

It's possible that the song could refer to Lucifer in some ways. I think we might be reading too much into the lyrics of the song.

While it's obvious it relates to Shinji ( :shock: Or does it?), I think that while writing the song, Lucifer probably wasn't any kind of influence.

That's just me tho...I've never liked picking apart songs for hidden meanings. I listen to stuff like Pink Flyod and the Beatles not for finding new or hidden meanings, but to listen to some awsome musicians practicing their craft.

Now, if you can find some kind of strange mathmatical theory within the notes and barlines of "Cruel Angel's Thesis", then I might be more inclined to see some new meaning.

(That is, of course, If I can understand it. T_T I'm so bad at math)

[Dave]

Um... I don't think trying to figure out what (or who) the cruel angel is constitutes "picking apart the song for hidden meanings". It seems like a pretty blatant detail to me. They must have had SOMEONE (or something) in mind when this song was written!

[Reichu]

Um... Did any of you folks (besides Dave, maybe) read the links I posted? In case you did not, here are two more:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml
http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/wor ... -ibel2.htm

"Lucifer" is *not* another name for Satan, but this misconception is so widespread that pretty much nothing can be done about it.

Alternatively, Satan and Sammael are, from what I understand, the same dude. But the lore surrounding this guy is ridiculously convoluted, far worse than the case of Lilith.

[Dark FireStar]

Um... Did any of you folks (besides Dave, maybe) read the links I posted? In case you did not, here are two more:

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml
http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/wor ... -ibel2.htm

"Lucifer" is *not* another name for Satan, but this misconception is so widespread that pretty much nothing can be done about it.

Alternatively, Satan and Sammael are, from what I understand, the same dude. But the lore surrounding this guy is ridiculously convoluted, far worse than the case of Lilith.

This makes you think on what else tho's ol' basterds mess up on in the bible.

[sadsadshinji]

i was under the impression that lucifer was an angel that rebelled against god, and in the inferno, was frozen at the very bottom of hell...

[Reichu]

i was under the impression that lucifer was an angel that rebelled against god, and in the inferno, was frozen at the very bottom of hell...

There IS no angel named "Lucifer". Read the links.

[sadsadshinji]

sorry about that...
the babylonian king? could tie to eva? however, it was a very interesting read...

[the_seventh_child]

There IS no angel named "Lucifer".

maybe that's right..but here in Greece the church and generally the christianity accepts the fact that Lucifer is Satan..

[Dark FireStar]

I wonder if there has been anyone who has ever named there kid "Lucifer"?

I wonder if the other angels banned from heven have names also. (I know they probilty do but what?)

[sadsadshinji]

well...satan was a banished angel and thats why he decided to try to keep others from reaching heaven....
and i think that for all practical purposes, satan = lucifer because of the culture that has grown up around it...

[aranami]

THE WATCHERS
Samyaza - Leader of the Watchers

Azazyel - taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes

Amazarak - taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots

Armers - taught the solution of sorcery

Barkaya - taught Astrology

Akibeel - taught signs

Tamiel - taught astronomy

Asaradel - taught the motion of the moon

Their actions lead to Noah's flood.