The Nietzsche Aspects of Eva

[The Imperialist]

Now for the heavy subjects!
Now I shall being by saying this from Nietzche: "When his (the author's) book opens its mouth, the author shuts his"
Any correllations? Hehe. (don't forget Wagner, but later on)
Also, we have to look at Schopenhauer where Nietzsche outlines the man’s greatest happiness (and some Dionysian aspects) is where they have never existed, or to have their life end shortly- this pessimistic salvation put into the Human Instrumentality Project. By Shinji destroying this, it comes up with the possibility of Eternal Recurrence- possibility of the new beginning, plus/or Shinji accepting the new similar pains he has to endure in the same manner before Third Impact (as in Thus spoke Zarathustra on the Eternal recurrence). More example I could say, but for now I shall sum up this very brief introduction: NGE is the new attempt at making a new culture (like in Nietzsche’s idea of culture), a Political Statement against the modern world, and the “Introduction to Metaphorical Nietzsche and the 19th century philosophy and its application to the modern world”

[slothen]

I'm over eight thousand percent sure that there's been a thread like this before.

[The Imperialist]

Was there? Well this is just the break off from Wagner, and I want to make this extremely in depth.

[BrikHaus]

I'm over eight thousand percent sure that there's been a thread like this before.

I'm over 9000

[The Imperialist]

Oh please. This is just a break off from the On Wagner thread which hasn't been answered for a long while.

[Ornette]

you might get more bang out of your buck here: http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2662&highlight=nietzche

(btw, the Search function is your friend)

[The Imperialist]

Not deep enough, and from waht I read, some points I made doesn't surface (and no mention of Wagner- very important)

[SEELE 08]

I have got to finish reading Nietzche contra Wagner....

[The Imperialist]

Good idea. It helps.

[The Imperialist]

All right, another thing: from Thus Spoke Zarathustra, it mentions by the daemon that basically 'imagine the world like it goes on repeating itself'. Dead Sea Scrolls with its 'prediction' (most likely a record of what happened before) proves this point, and the new 'beginning' of the cycle, (here is some Wagner) with the Will To Power(/Supermen) for Asuka and Shinji to come out of the LCL.

[chee]

Hmmmm....

[The Imperialist]

What do you mean by hmmmmm?

[BrikHaus]

Yummmmmmmm

[Zuggy]

All right, another thing: from Thus Spoke Zarathustra, it mentions by the daemon that basically 'imagine the world like it goes on repeating itself'. Dead Sea Scrolls with its 'prediction' (most likely a record of what happened before) proves this point, and the new 'beginning' of the cycle, (here is some Wagner) with the Will To Power(/Supermen) for Asuka and Shinji to come out of the LCL.

God, I tried to read Thus Spake Zarathustra ages ago and got nowhere. I had no idea what he was getting at unless the language was really plain about it.

I'm not seeing where the idea of Shinji and Asuka coming out of the LCL sea has to do with their will to power, didn't they both pop up on that beach out of their own despair rather than willing themselves to live and conquer the new world? Remember in 25/26 folks say of Shinji that he just wanted "death, sorrow, and to return to nothingness" and the only way he could do that was by ejecting himself from complementation (I guess the same applies to Asuka too).

[Anonymous_Evafan]

Um no. Just no.

Shinji:
Maybe it's okay for me to be here!
That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less!
I'm me.
I want to be me!
I want to be here!
And it's okay for me to be here!

[Alaska Slim]

I'm not seeing where the idea of Shinji and Asuka coming out of the LCL sea has to do with their will to power, didn't they both pop up on that beach out of their own despair rather than willing themselves to live and conquer the new world? Remember in 25/26 folks say of Shinji that he just wanted "death, sorrow, and to return to nothingness" and the only way he could do that was by ejecting himself from complementation (I guess the same applies to Asuka too).

... how does that even make sense? Pain exists in the world, by returning to it he would experience it yet again, but if he gave into Instrumentality, he would forever be a part of an unending 'paradise' (note, DO NOT take that literally) where he would never be alone, and in fact, would not even exist:

Shinji: This is the world of nothing, space with nothing,
the world of nothing.
The world with nothing but me.
I am understanding myself less.
I feel as if I'm going to disappear.
My existence is fading away.

Why?

Misato: Because there's nobody but you.

Shinji: Nobody but me?

Misato: Because you have no existence outside of yourself,
You can't figure out your own shape.

Shinji: My shape?

My image.

Misato: Yes. You are getting to know your own shape through
seeing others' shapes.

Asuka: Seeing others' walls, you imagine yourself.

Rei: You cannot see yourself unless there are others.

I have to say, this is a rather large oversight on your part. 8)

[Mr. Tines]

but if he gave into Instrumentality, he would forever be a part of an unending paradise

What we were shown of the Complemented state was anything but paradise; more like Sartre's take "Hell is other people".

What we see after the Complementation shatters in the TV ending (which looks very different to anything we are shown in EoE) might at least be some more improvable post-human state.

[Anonymous_Evafan]

What we were shown of the Complemented state was anything but paradise; more like Sartre's take "Hell is other people".

We wern't shown the final product. If we had been there would have been no return since everyone would be gone yielding an entirely new entity. We are in no position to make judgements on it due to this fact, though I certainly wouldn't call the intended outcome "paradise" at all.

[Zuggy]

Um no. Just no.

Shinji:
Maybe it's okay for me to be here!
That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less!
I'm me.
I want to be me!
I want to be here!
And it's okay for me to be here!

Sorry to tell you this hun, but the ending with Shinji all "yippee, my life is worth living" and Shinji on that beach there, strangling Asuka while crying aren't the same ending and can't be compared to each other!

Pain exists in the world, by returning to it he would experience it yet again,

That's what Shinji wants. Remember - he's a boy who wants to do himself in but ain't got the balls to do it.

From the LTP script -

[code:1]Misato: That's the result you wanted.

Shinji: I wanted?

Rei: Yes. Destruction, the world where nobody was saved.

Shinji: NO. It's that nobody saved me.

Ritsuko: Nobody can save you.

Ryouji: This is what you wanted.

Asuka: Destruction, death, the return to nothingness. All of these did you wish for.

[...]

Asuka: The mind that wishes to die, which you yourself want.

Shinji: This darkness, this incomplete world... Are you saying, I wished for all of these?

Asuka: Yes.[/code:1]

(I assume) you can't die in a complemented state, so the only way for Shinji to get what he always wanted was to eject himself from the process.

[chee]

What we were shown of the Complemented state was anything but paradise; more like Sartre's take "Hell is other people".

What we see after the Complementation shatters in the TV ending (which looks very different to anything we are shown in EoE) might at least be some more improvable post-human state.

@ First part: Yes.

@Second Part: Interesting, but I ultimately disagree. I felt it was a metaphor for Instrumentality ending. The stage "shatters", we are left with a barren globe. Note how Shinji is there first, and THEN the others arrive....

a hint?