Berserker's power source?

Over time, notable threads from ANF will be preserved here for the Benefit of All.

Moderators: Ornette, Monk Ed

Gaizokubanou [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gaizokubanou [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

In ep 19 and EoE, evas go berserk without any power, and in both cases S^2 engine, organ, whatever you call it wasn't there for the eva. How are they moving? Do evas have their own secret battery? Or the whole power plug deal just for show and that evas can move as long as they want?

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 07:29 GMT

Rabid Monkey [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rabid Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

A 'Berserker' is in relation to the soul within the Eva (in 01's case, Yui) taking control and doing things their way. An example of this early on is in episode 2, with Eva 01 decimating Sachiel (before the Angelic wonder forfeits and self- destructs, predator style!)

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 20:53 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

Yui's 'berserk' rampage in #02 is slightly different from the ones in #16 or #19, being as she had the umbilical cable attached.

Gaizokubanou, I think the only real explanation you're going to get is that Yui (or Kyoko, however briefly) was running on "soul juice" alone.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 14:01 GMT

Gaizokubanou [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gaizokubanou [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

Actually, now I think about it, maybe they can move as long as they want to without either S^2 engine or umbilical cable untill they die of starvation. Kinda like regular animals; we don't just go "off" because we don't have something to eat, we first use up our body fat to fuel and every muscles start shrinking cause there is no energy.

Then again, evas dying of starvation just sounds too... un-eva like.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 18:21 GMT

Rabid Monkey [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rabid Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

Each soul is embedded (or rather contained) within the core ,there is no need for an S^2 to be active for a 'berserker' to occur, it's all to do with a soul going rogue. The umbilical cable and the pilot argueably suppresed the soul from taking control in some cases, thus the reason why it's called a 'berserker' and not something retained to a rational act.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 18:31 GMT

Mr. Tines [ANF]
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Posts: 787
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

Reichu wrote:Yui's 'berserk' rampage in #02 is slightly different from the ones in #16 or #19, being as she had the umbilical cable attached.

Gaizokubanou, I think the only real explanation you're going to get is that Yui (or Kyoko, however briefly) was running on "soul juice" alone.


I also suspect that it also takes something out of the pilot - up to and including the dissolution in the last of those instances.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 19:23 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:59 am

Mr. Tines wrote:I also suspect that it also takes something out of the pilot - up to and including the dissolution in the last of those instances.


It's never really made clear WHY Shinji turned into goop. Ritsuko says that it's because the Eva "willed it to happen", but I honestly can't imagine why Yui would have wanted that.

Need I mention, Evas are capable of moving of their own accord without a pilot in place. This is exhibited by both EVA-00 and EVA-01.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 19:48 GMT

Rabid Monkey [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rabid Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Reichu wrote:It's never really made clear WHY Shinji turned into goop. Ritsuko says that it's because the Eva "willed it to happen", but I honestly can't imagine why Yui would have wanted that.


Are you refering to Episode 20? If so, then wasn't it the result of a 400% synch with her, resulting in Shinji losing physical form and bonding on a higher level with her. At the risk of Shinji losing his physicality, I think Yui would have accepted it as just, if it resulted in them joining 'soul-to-soul'. She was probaly aware that he would return to his normal state anyway.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 19:54 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Episode #20, yes. While we are told it is due to the fabled "400% synch ratio" (now how is THAT mathematically feasible?), Ritsuko also implies that it is because of Eva herself.

Ritsuko: This is the true nature of 400% synchronization.

Misato: I can't believe it! What the hell happened to
Shinji-kun?

Ritsuko: He has been taken into Eva-01.

Misato: What do you mean? What is Eva?!

Ritsuko: That which was created by humans in the human image.
I can't say it in any other way.

Misato: Created by humans? You only copied what you found in
Antarctica back then. The original? I don't understand.

Ritsuko: It isn't just a copy. A human will is within it.

Misato: Do you mean that this was because of some one's will?

Ritsuko: Or Eva's.


Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 08:08 GMT

Gaizokubanou [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gaizokubanou [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

I'm guessing here that 100% sync rate is complete coordination of physical bodies...

Now I don't have a clue what 200%, 300%, and 400% represents... it sounds like beyond 400% is where bonding of the sould happen though.

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 08:13 GMT

Rabid Monkey [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rabid Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Reichu wrote:Episode #20, yes. While we are told it is due to the fabled "400% synch ratio" (now how is THAT mathematically feasible?), Ritsuko also implies that it is because of Eva herself.


Of course, as far as semi-coherent, plot-devices go, it pulls through.

I still dont see why it's so hard to understand why Yui-san willed it to happen, though?

Yui wished for her son and herself to bond as far as I'm concerend, right from his arrival this is apparent. What better way then to accomplish this then by the absorbtion of Shinji. Soul-to-soul, as I've said before.

I do wonder though...was the 400% synch a delibarate attempt by Yui, or did it just come as luck on her part to take advantage of the situation?

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 08:20 GMT

thx3876 [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 97
Joined: Oct 22, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby thx3876 [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Berserker's power source?

It's love, baby.

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 08:22 GMT

The Eva Monkey [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 128
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby The Eva Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Any biological being's movement boils down to electrical energy. Electrical impluses causes muscles to stimulate and tense or untense. Since the Eva is not operating under its own conscious will, it must be forced, just as anyone who undergoes electro shock therapy has no control over their body as the electrical current causes them to convulse/twitch involuntarily. The power supplied to the Eva allows the pilot to operate the Eva without the Eva's conscious control of itself. When an Eva goes berserk, it becomes conscious and operates independently, presumably tapping into whatever bilogical and chemical energy it might have within its body. This is most likely finite as it is, as Evas do not ingest food to process and store into chemical energy, the way an normal human does.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 21:51 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

What, so berserker rampages are powered by citosis? I like the soul juice idea better. Image

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 21:54 GMT

Rabid Monkey [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rabid Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Actually, I quite like the idea EvaMonkey is proposing. Although I will add, that any citosis occurence which may or may not take place, is conducted through the interference of the Eva's soul in the first place.

Basically, it's probable that the soul in question, once in control, takes the Eva as a host (this we know) and quite literally make's it dance to it's tune. Through the citosis, not just the action's. After all, a soul needs something to use as a median in accomplishing whatever it wants to do.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 22:04 GMT

Keisuke-kun [ANF]
Sachiel
User avatar
Posts: 248
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Keisuke-kun [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

I still like my explaniation of an Eva version of an Andrenaline rush.

Originally posted on: 09-Nov-2004, 22:17 GMT

Gaizokubanou [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gaizokubanou [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

The Eva Monkey wrote:Any biological being's movement boils down to electrical energy. Electrical impluses causes muscles to stimulate and tense or untense. Since the Eva is not operating under its own conscious will, it must be forced, just as anyone who undergoes electro shock therapy has no control over their body as the electrical current causes them to convulse/twitch involuntarily. The power supplied to the Eva allows the pilot to operate the Eva without the Eva's conscious control of itself. When an Eva goes berserk, it becomes conscious and operates independently, presumably tapping into whatever bilogical and chemical energy it might have within its body. This is most likely finite as it is, as Evas do not ingest food to process and store into chemical energy, the way an normal human does.


Yeah that is what I sorta was thinking, except I didn't go in depth to explain it as you did.

But only thing that bugs me about that idea is that if that's how similar evas are to humans, that makes them vulnerable to certain things like starvation. I just can't imagine god-like beings starving to death.

I still like my explaniation of an Eva version of an Andrenaline rush.


sounds interesting, how does it work?

Edit: I was just thinking, when evas are not operational, since they are certainly not "dead", are they in coma-like state? or more like cryo sleeping(I have no idea how to spell this thing)?

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 00:43 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

In Asuka's case in EoE, it also seemed that she and her mother were so bonded at that moment that Eva-02's Berserker seemed also seemed to be caused by Asuka's extreame anger and pain.^BTW,that's a good question. Evas have organs,but are they used in any life processes?

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 00:53 GMT

Gaizokubanou [ANF]
Adam
User avatar
Posts: 55
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Gaizokubanou [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Yes, pilot's emotions seem to trigger the berserker, but emotion alone cannot explain the energy which evas use while berserked.

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 01:05 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:00 am

Considering that Evas have no body fat to speak of, and Nerv never feeds them, and various other things that I can't remember right now, I'm personally skeptical about the energy from the berserk incidents having metabolic origins. Is it really so farfetched that maybe the soul might be able to produce limited bursts of energy of its own accord?

Gaizokubanou wrote:Yes, pilot's emotions seem to trigger the berserker


Only if it services the plot. Personally, I always thought that the pilot's emotional state might help serve to ROUSE the resident soul into action, but it is not a direct cause-effect relationship.

Monkey wrote:Any biological being's movement boils down to electrical energy. Electrical impluses causes muscles to stimulate and tense or untense. Since the Eva is not operating under its own conscious will, it must be forced, just as anyone who undergoes electro shock therapy has no control over their body as the electrical current causes them to convulse/twitch involuntarily. The power supplied to the Eva allows the pilot to operate the Eva without the Eva's conscious control of itself.


Electrical energy rouses a cell to action, but it doesn't, last I heard, actually provide the energy that the cell uses to move. That comes from ATP and all that fun stuff.

I would not compare the pilot's control over an Eva to electroshock therapy, personally. In the latter, electrodes are used to stimulate muscles externally. With the Evas, the bloody central nervous system is being tapped, and the muscles are presumably being controlled the same way any of us would control ours -- signals being sent to the cells from the spinal cord (or its cybernetic replacement, anyway...) through the peripheral nerves and back It's a slightly different deal. When Evas go 'berserk', control over the nervous system is simply handed from the pilot to the body's rightful owner. Image

Originally posted on: 10-Nov-2004, 01:18 GMT


Return to “AnimeNation Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest