Shinji's Sexuality

Notable old Evangelion threads from the AnimeNation Forums are preserved here.

Moderators: Monk Ed, Ornette

Soluzar [ANF]
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Posts: 618
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:21 am

Magami No ER wrote:I've always wondered how differently Shinji would react if Kaworu was a girl. As for me, i'm glad he's a bish.Image


EoE could be said to provide some insight into Shinji's preferences. He's not too thrilled to see Giant Naked Rei, but he's ecstatic to see Giant Naked Kaworu. Image

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 15:15 GMT

Kerberos [ANF]
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 22, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kerberos [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:23 am

Soluzar wrote:EoE could be said to provide some insight into Shinji's preferences. He's not too thrilled to see Giant Naked Rei, but he's ecstatic to see Giant Naked Kaworu. Image


I think that's just because Rei looks so much like his mother, whom he feels he souldn't be sexually attracted to.

He's just a kid, discovering life. Had 3I not ocurred he'd have plenty of time ahead the define himself, IMO.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 15:47 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Posts: 618
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:23 am

Kerberos wrote:I think that's just because Rei looks so much like his mother, whom he feels he souldn't be sexually attracted to.



Suuuuuure.... that must be it. Freud would say that forbidden fruit tastes sweeter, you know. Image

Seriously, though, I think it has more to do with the fact that on some level he's not prepared to deal with, Shinji just prefers boys. Kaworu is the first entity of any description that we see Shinji being truly open with.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 15:56 GMT

Kerberos [ANF]
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 22, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kerberos [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:23 am

Soluzar wrote:Suuuuuure.... that must be it. Freud would say that forbidden fruit tastes sweeter, you know. Image


You'd be surprised at how questionable Freud is among psychology scholars.
Hey, I'm not a psychologist, but I saw one on tv! Image

Soluzar wrote:Seriously, though, I think it has more to do with the fact that on some level he's not prepared to deal with, Shinji just prefers boys. Kaworu is the first entity of any description that we see Shinji being truly open with.


Wasn't Shinji open enough when he [fratboy language]peeled a banana[/fratboy language] before Comatous Naked Asuka?

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 16:10 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
Armisael
Armisael
User avatar
Posts: 925
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:23 am

Soluzar wrote:Seriously, though, I think it has more to do with the fact that on some level he's not prepared to deal with, Shinji just prefers boys. Kaworu is the first entity of any description that we see Shinji being truly open with.
Shinji:
Kaoru-kun, said "I love you."
To me!
For the first time, for the first time I heard those words.[/u]

He looked like me.
He looked like Ayanami.
I loved him.
Kaoru-kun should have been the one to survive.
He was much better than I am.
He should have survived.


Do you think it's possible that Shinji's feelings about Kaworu might have had something to do with what he's talking about here, rather than turning it int a gay/straight deal?

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 16:36 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Posts: 618
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:23 am

Kerberos wrote:You'd be surprised at how questionable Freud is among psychology scholars.
Hey, I'm not a psychologist, but I saw one on tv! Image

Nope, I know how questionable he is. I just think that in this situation, there's ample evidence to suggest that his work in the field of the Oedipus Complex is applicable.


Kerberos wrote:Wasn't Shinji open enough when he [fratboy language]peeled a banana[/fratboy language] before Comatous Naked Asuka?


He is culturally conditioned to believe that he would find girls sexually attractive. It's a stage that most homosexuals go through before discovering their attraction to the same sex. Or he could be bi. Perhaps if we are going to debate Shinji's sexuality further, a new thread is in order. I'm game for a full on debate about the nature of Shinji's sexuality if you are. I think that there is plenty of room to argue that his orientation is same-sex, but that he is confused by the inculcation that he has received from society.


Shin-Seiki wrote:Do you think it's possible that Shinji's feelings about Kaworu might have had something to do with what he's talking about here, rather than turning it int a gay/straight deal?


Yes, I admit that it is possible, but I also think that this is not an incident that I take in isolation. There are several other factors which make me think that Shinji might well be same-sex oriented, and I'd be happy to debate them in another thread. I don't think that we should hijack this thread in order to do so, though. I won't be starting the new thread myself, however, but I'll gladly join in if somebody else begins the debate.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 16:37 GMT

Kerberos [ANF]
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 22, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kerberos [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 am

Soluzar wrote:Perhaps if we are going to debate Shinji's sexuality further, a new thread is in order. I'm game for a full on debate about the nature of Shinji's sexuality if you are. I think that there is plenty of room to argue that his orientation is same-sex, but that he is confused by the inculcation that he has received from society.


I don't think we need a thread, because we all know it would go like "I think this" and "I think that" - like we are right now Image - around a subject Anno apparently never really mentioned, or no one has never noticed before, unlike Ibuki's sexuality.
Although I agree with you that Shinji's behavior may be interpreted as having a tendency for homosexuality, I think 14 is much of a young age for anyone, including himself, to absolutely affirm anything like that.
Sexuality is, after all, not yet defined at that age. But hey, this is not a psychologist speaking! Image

...If only NERV would offer therapy sessions included in their health insurance. Image

[edit]Of course, Soluzar, if anyone else ever starts a thread about Shinji's sexuality I might say a word or two myself.[/edit]

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 17:05 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
Angel
Angel
User avatar
Posts: 3651
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 am

Well, just because it was my fault the Evas/female thread got off-topic in the first place, Sharp-kun has kindly created a new thread where we may opine futilely on the matter! I do have a few words (and images) to throw into the mix, but those will come after Ceramics class...

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 17:13 GMT

Kerberos [ANF]
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct 22, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kerberos [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 am

Reichu wrote:Well, just because it was my fault the Evas/female thread got off-topic in the first place, Sharp-kun has kindly created a new thread where we may opine futilely on the matter! I do have a few words (and images) to throw into the mix, but those will come after Ceramics class...


I don't even know what to expect from that anymore, Reichu... Image

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 17:20 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
Armisael
Armisael
User avatar
Posts: 925
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 am

Soluzar wrote:Nope, I know how questionable he is. I just think that in this situation, there's ample evidence to suggest that his work in the field of the Oedipus Complex is applicable.




He is culturally conditioned to believe that he would find girls sexually attractive. It's a stage that most homosexuals go through before discovering their attraction to the same sex. Or he could be bi. Perhaps if we are going to debate Shinji's sexuality further, a new thread is in order. I'm game for a full on debate about the nature of Shinji's sexuality if you are. I think that there is plenty of room to argue that his orientation is same-sex, but that he is confused by the inculcation that he has received from society.




Yes, I admit that it is possible, but I also think that this is not an incident that I take in isolation. There are several other factors which make me think that Shinji might well be same-sex oriented, and I'd be happy to debate them in another thread. I don't think that we should hijack this thread in order to do so, though. I won't be starting the new thread myself, however, but I'll gladly join in if somebody else begins the debate.

I think you're reading to much into Shinji's "attraction" to Kaworu, which I think had a lot more to do with the fact that Kaworu treated him with a kind of unconditional love and acceptance that he had never got from anyone (except, I suppose his mother, whom he barely remembered). Also, remember that Shinji is retreating psychologically from the twin blows of finding out that Rei isn't quite human, and of having Misato come on to him sexually, which has left him feeling confused and alienated.

I should also mention that there are countless indications before and after Shinji meets Kaworu that his romantic interest is in girls; Asuka in particular:
Shinji (to Asuka, #26'):
I want to help you somehow, and be with you forever.[/u]


I might also mention that, with all the plethora of (hetero)sexualized imagery related to Instrumentality in EoE (and EoTV, for that matter), it is worth noting that Kaworu keeps his pants on the whole time...

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 17:21 GMT

Soluzar [ANF]
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Posts: 618
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 am

Shin-seiki wrote:I should also mention that there are countless indications before and after Shinji meets Kaworu that his romantic interest is in girls; Asuka in particular:
Shinji (to Asuka, #26'):
I want to help you somehow, and be with you forever.[/u]


I might also mention that, with all the plethora of (hetero)sexualized imagery related to Instrumentality in EoE (and EoTV, for that matter), it is worth noting that Kaworu keeps his pants on the whole time...


Since when was Shinji ever good at knowing what he wants? Every time he has a 'romantic encounter' with a girl, or any form of pseudo-sexual contact,
it has a tendancy to end in disaster, or in Shinji being called some variety of idiot. It's always been my opinion that he is in denial. Heterosexuality is the default, and it is what most people will start life under the assumption that they are.

Shinji is repeatedly represented through the course of the series as an effeminate type of boy, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it does go towards suggesting that Anno had something of this nature in mind. I have lots more that I'd like to say, but unfortunately, that'll have to wait until probably tomorrow, when I have had chance to marshal my thoughts.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 17:41 GMT

Crazy Penguin [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Crazy Penguin [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:24 am

Soluzar wrote:Shinji is repeatedly represented through the course of the series as an effeminate type of boy, and while there is nothing wrong with that, it does go towards suggesting that Anno had something of this nature in mind.


Anno based Shinji on himself, and I'm pretty sure Anno is heterosexual.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 18:27 GMT

tbozfan [ANF]
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 32
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby tbozfan [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

Shinji is probably coping with his bisexuality, just like most people.

Originally posted on: 06-Nov-2004, 08:42 GMT

Aoshi_Shinomori [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 6
Joined: Oct 22, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Aoshi_Shinomori [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

tbozfan wrote:Shinji is probably coping with his bisexuality, [b]just like most people.


What??? Speak for yourself, I'm in no way bisexual and I'm not homophobic, in fact I have friends who are gay. I love women 100%, and I think Shinjii does too.

His attraction to Asuka is obvious. His confusion comes from him not knowing how to deal with her strange behaviour, the way she flip flops and toys with his emotions.

As for Rei, she not only is his mother bit also acts like a nonsexual robot. Difficult to be truly attracted sexually to that.

It seems to me Soluzar, like you WANT Shinjii to be gay and are simply looking for any way to prove some sign of it. Is that your fantasy...

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:03 GMT

Rabid Monkey [ANF]
Embryo
Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Rabid Monkey [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

Kawrou provided to Shinji and un-flinching 'love' which I dont think can be interprated as merely sexual, but a truly hertfelt compassion to Shinji as a human being. Kawrou's envisions on humanity were beggining to expand beyond the 'enemy-factor' that the majority of Angels held towards them as a speceis, and so I think his emotional passion for Shinji is more a representation of this.

When it boils down to Shinji's sexuality though, I dont think one can associate it with something as black or white as 'homosexuality' or 'hetrosexuality' as I think his attraction to Asuka is merely skin deep, and his love for Kawrou is obvious through the fact that they had a bond on a higher, more deeper level.

One thing I interprated through these proceedings is that Asuka demonstrate's human qualitys lacking in Shinji. Exumed self-confidence and a feiry persona for example, are things which oppose Shinji's persona (him being the complete opposite). His attraction to Asuka was overshadowed by this I beleive, as the quality's in her that he lacked were always looming, bringing to light his failings as a person.

Kawrou provided compassion which didn't critique Shinji on level (unlike the often abusive Asuka) and so it was easier for Shinji to realise and accept his love for him. Shinji wasn't reminded of his downfalls as a person when with Kaworu.

I dont think the prospects of homosexuality ever really dawned on Shinji, I just think his love for Kawrou came from a much emotionally higher, deep-seeded place in his heart.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:05 GMT

tbozfan [ANF]
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 32
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby tbozfan [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

Aoshi_Shinomori wrote:What??? Speak for yourself, I'm in no way bisexual and I'm not homophobic, in fact I have friends who are gay. I love women 100%, and I think Shinjii does too.

His attraction to Asuka is obvious. His confusion comes from him not knowing how to deal with her strange behaviour, the way she flip flops and toys with his emotions.

As for Rei, she not only is his mother bit also acts like a nonsexual robot. Difficult to be truly attracted sexually to that.

It seems to me Soluzar, like you WANT Shinjii to be gay and are simply looking for any way to prove some sign of it. Is that your fantasy...

Think what you will, but chances are you do have a slight attraction to males. And even if there were such a thing as being 100% straight, then Shinji would definately not be it.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:07 GMT

Mr. Tines [ANF]
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Posts: 787
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Mr. Tines [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

I think it can be argued - He flinches from Misato's contact (after ReiII's death?), yet later accepts Kaoru's identical gesture in the shower scene with just a blush. And there is little evidence to suggest that this is a case of being so desperate for physical contact that being choosy goes out the window.

However, on balance, I'm not completely convinced.

Other issues raised:

Isn't it explicitly stated that he was delibrately drawn in a manner more typical of anime girls?

As for GNR vs GNK - isn't that after Shinji's already admitted being scared of (normal size) Ayanami? - and now she's miles tall.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:23 GMT

Knives [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 125
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

I think to suggest that Shinji's "attraction" to Kaworu is merely homosexual is to miss the point all together. As has already been said, Kaworu's love for Shinji is an unconditional love ... the first Shinji's ever experienced.

To suggest Shinji's return of that love to be sexual would be like saying that every Christian just wants to get it on with God, seeing as He first loved us (unconditionally), and we return that love.

I can understand why one may mistake Shinji's reaction in EoE to be one of a homosexual nature. But I also believe that to think this is fundamentally wrong to the nature of what's actually occurring in that scene. To miss this is to miss a lot of the meaning in Evangelion.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:23 GMT

Knives [ANF]
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 125
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Knives [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

Mr. Tines wrote:I think it can be argued - He flinches from Misato's contact (after ReiII's death?), yet later accepts Kaoru's identical gesture in the shower scene with just a blush. And there is little evidence to suggest that this is a case of being so desperate for physical contact that being choosy goes out the window.

... I'm not so sure it's an "acceptance" with a blush ... more of a stunned "What the hell are you doing?" look.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:26 GMT

Magami No ER [ANF]
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Posts: 1145
Joined: Oct 19, 2007

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:25 am

I think he was more frightened of GNR because it was a inital reaction to seeing a giant face breathing heavily with half of the face showing the brains and eyeball.(whf was that for anyway?) Shinji then sees a friend who he thought had died at his own hands speak softly and calmly to him,asking if everything is oaky, he relaxed, though it did seem a little abrupt. I'm very interested in seeing the manga version of this if it ever gets finished. I think without the hospital scene in the begining, there would be much more confusion.

Originally posted on: 05-Nov-2004, 21:27 GMT


Return to “AnimeNation Archive”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests