Reason for Eva-01 Lilith Differences?

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

This was one of those late night ideas, so its not going to be perfect, but I thought it might warrent some discussion.

We know that Lilith and EVA-01 have some physical differences, most notable skin colour and Lilith's apparent lack of a core.

Lets go with the popular theory that Lilith and Adam were once one being, that was split into 2. For simplicity, I'll assume that this was a physical slice (not likely, but it works for this).

One being, cut in 2. Due to the nature of the cut, Adam gets the S2, and the core, Lilith gets nothing physical but somehow gets the "Fruit of Knowlege". She has all the DNA containing the data on how to "make a core", but because she lacks the S2, she can't regenerate and regain it. This means Lilith lacks a core (Slight problem here, for those that can spot it). Adam however, has the original core.
Lilith, also lacking the ability to regenerate, cannot regain her true looks, possibly damaged by being split, as such she remains white, and slightly "puffy" looking.

What do you think? The results of thinking about Eva when lieing in bed Image

Originally posted on: 13-Nov-2003, 11:11 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

Instead of getting into all of this wild speculation about Lil and Adam being the same entity at one point (not that there's anything wrong with wild speculation), I think it's MUCH easier to explain the physical differences between Lil and EVA-01 by simply assuming that this "clone" business is a load of croc. As I have tried to say many, MANY times before.

Originally posted on: 13-Nov-2003, 12:46 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

Reichu wrote:Instead of getting into all of this wild speculation about Lil and Adam being the same entity at one point (not that there's anything wrong with wild speculation),


I wouldn't call it that wild Image


Reichu wrote:I think it's MUCH easier to explain the physical differences between Lil and EVA-01 by simply assuming that this "clone" business is a load of croc. As I have tried to say many, MANY times before.


The series disagrees Image

Poke holes in my idea!

Originally posted on: 13-Nov-2003, 14:03 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:The series disagrees Image



And genetic science so elementary even I know about it "disagrees" with the series. :Image:

Poke holes in my idea!



I would if I hadn't already developed a theorem on Shogouki's origins that currently keeps me pretty happy.

Originally posted on: 13-Nov-2003, 14:26 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

If Adam got Liliths core, wouldn't that mean Adam would have Liliths soul?

Thus Wouldn't that mean there is no Adam that it is simply Lilith? Not to mention it would make Rei Non-existent.

Unless I am missing something, I would say your theory creates some big problems.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:03 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

tv33 wrote:If Adam got Liliths core, wouldn't that mean Adam would have Liliths soul?


Not so much Lilith's core, as the core of whetever they might have originally been.

There is still the question of where is Lilith's core. She must have had one, as EVA-01 did, from the beginning of its life.


tv33 wrote:I would say your theory creates some big problems.


I wouldn't go as far as theory yet Image It was a late (2AM) idea Image

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:12 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:There is still the question of where is Lilith's core. She must have had one, as EVA-01 did, from the beginning of its life.



For some reason I never believe Lilith had a core. When Rei was absorbed into Lilith's body there was no problem with the soul going into the body. There should have been if Lilith had no core and needed one to store its soul. ( I seem to recall Reichu talking about a "Spontaneous core generation" Theory awhile back, that could help explain things)

Also, is it possible that the core was added to Unit-01 somehow?

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:26 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:46 pm

tv33 wrote:[BI seem to recall Reichu talking about a "Spontaneous core generation" Theory awhile back, that could help explain things


What was that?

Assuming Lilith did have a core originally, and for some reason lost it, it may well have regenerated with the rest of her, just under the skin.


tv33 wrote:Also, is it possible that the core was added to Unit-01 somehow?


Its possible, but if Lilith (and logically her clones) don't need a core to hold the soul, then why would EVA-01?

We also see the core in there at a very early stage, 01 hasn't even got anything below the torso at that point. If you're going to be adding stuff to the Eva, you'd have thought they'd have waited until it was finished, rather than risk messing up what was presumably a rather difficult task.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:31 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:Its possible, but if Lilith (and logically her clones) don't need a core to hold the soul, then why would EVA-01?



I was thinking about that when I was typing it. -o-;

If Lilith's soul was exclusive to Liliths body, they might have used the core as a medium for which to store a soul.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:39 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

tv33 wrote:If Lilith's soul was exclusive to Liliths body,


But its not.



Cores are obviously not required to store souls. Humans (as far as we see) don't have them, and Lilith seems to get on fine without one.

However, that doesn't mean that Lilith doesn't have the DNA information capable of producing one (left over from when she was once part of Adam), if she was to either be cloned or allowed to fully regenerate.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:44 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Sharp-kun wrote:But its not.



Yeah, I was grasping at straws. Anything to get this out of my head


Sharp-kun wrote:Cores are obviously not required to store souls. Humans (as far as we see) don't have them, and Lilith seems to get on fine without one.



As we are the (Direct) offspring of Lilith, that would lead me to believe perhaps she does not have a core either.

And as you said, she gets by fine without one, which also leads me to believe she never had one in the first place.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:51 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

tv33 wrote:As we are the (Direct) offspring of Lilith, that would lead me to belive perhaps she does not have a core either.

And as you said, she gets by fine without one, which also leads me to belive she never had one in the first place.


But that then leads to asking why EVA-01 does...

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 08:53 GMT

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Postby NakedEYE666 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

The theory seems likely enough. Right now I'm simply assuming there's more (or less) to this cloning buisiness than basic duplication. This is science fiction, after all. Still, I don't see how there's any way you could get Eva-01 out of Lilith, so I guess that's where the rest of this stuff comes in.

Originally posted on: 13-Nov-2003, 22:49 GMT

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Postby Gundampilotspaz [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Why does lillith need a core? If she really was split from adam and because of that does not have an S2 or a core it really doesn't matter, but she must have the power of regeneration because her legs regenerate in Death and Rebirth.

Well lets take a look and what Adam and lillith did while split from each other.

Adam: Created the angels. Have cores, have S2 engines, anbd have the power of regeneration.

Lillith: Created Humans. No cores, no S2(I really don't know) and do not have the power of regeneration.

The theroy seems to hold water to me.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 03:46 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

tv33 wrote:I seem to recall Reichu talking about a "Spontaneous core generation" Theory awhile back



Oh, that was just some silly thing I made up... During Yui's happy little experiment, the moment after she loses her body, a core magically forms to contain her soul and pops out of EVA-01's solar plexus with a great splatter of LCL. Of course, no one (well, no one except felineki, anyway Image) is going to buy that idea, so I'll just keep it to myself from now on. Forget you EVER heard it.

I actually believe the REAL reason EVA-01 looks nothing like Lilith is because Anno pulled this "clone" stuff out of his arse when he realized he had created most of the mythos but still hadn't come up with a good reason for EVA-01 to be "special".

Anno: Okay, dudes... I know we've been building up this thing about Shogouki being special or something, and not just because it's Gendou's wife and stuff. Now that those obnoxious fans are demanding that new ending, we have to come up with something REALLY farfetched to meet their expectations!
Random GAINAX Ninnie: Well, Anno-san, since we've already defied the scientific definition of cloning with Rei and the other Evas and all, how about making EVA-01 a clone of Lilith or something?
Anno: You wonderful bakayarou! It doesn't make an iota of sense, but it just MIGHT work!! Plus, it'll give those nerds yet ANOTHER thing to argue endlessly about! You're a genius!
Random GAINAX Ninnie: No, Anno-san, YOU are. Image

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 03:50 GMT

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Postby UberDirector [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Reichu wrote:And genetic science so elementary even I know about it "disagrees" with the series. :Image:

Oh good lord *sigh*

Genetic cloning 101. Because something starts as an exact genetic duplicate of another does not mean it will end up as an exact genetic duplicate of the same.

Simply put, at any time after the begining of the cloning process, gentetic deviance may be observed, thus resulting in two completely different results starting from the same genetic material.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 20:13 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

Gundampilotspaz wrote:but she must have the power of regeneration because her legs regenerate in Death and Rebirth.


She doesn't. She required Adam's S2 to do it.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 11:22 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:47 pm

UberDirector wrote:Simply put, at any time after the begining of the cloning process, gentetic deviance may be observed, thus resulting in two completely different results starting from the same genetic material.



So you believe that the differences between the individual Evas are completely "accidental"?

Sharp-kun: So how does one explain Lilith's ability to generate unlimited biomass WITHOUT having a glorified pitchfork jammed in her chest? She doesn't seem to have any problem bleeding limitlessly, far as I can tell.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 14:43 GMT

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Postby UberDirector [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:48 pm

Reichu wrote:So you believe that the differences between the individual Evas are completely "accidental"?

Not neccesarily. NERV could have been doing some manipulation to produce different varients.... They were after all attempting to produce an effective combat weapon. Perhaps some feature of Unit 00 were found lacking and needed to be "changed" on future models.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 14:45 GMT

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Postby Sharp-kun [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:48 pm

Reichu wrote:Sharp-kun: So how does one explain Lilith's ability to generate unlimited biomass WITHOUT having a glorified pitchfork jammed in her chest? She doesn't seem to have any problem bleeding limitlessly, far as I can tell.


I consider it the same as EVA-01 regenerating its armour. Its for effect.

Originally posted on: 14-Nov-2003, 14:45 GMT


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