The Problem of Second Impact, or, Sloppy Writing is Sloooopy

[faetaleti [ANF]]

Thanks, to both of you !! That makes a lot of sense now.

Wow, I realized that there is so much stuff that they never actually tell you in the films. That bugs me quite a bit.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:16 PM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

Wow, I realized that there is so much stuff that they never actually tell you in the films.

Welcome to the world of NGE!

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:20 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

They salvaged Adam's soul from Kaworu's remains. Although putting it in the embryo/egg/Reichu's word (man- something [althought this one does look like an embryo...])

Oro-oro?

creats a number of problems, not least of which is the fact thant It would basicaly mean having Adam's soul and Gendo's soul in the same place.

Adam's body hasn't really been assimilated into Gendo's body or anything, just sorta sunken into his palm a bit. I'd still say they're two separate vessels.

There are also other instances of different souls sharing close quarters, like Yui and Lilith (2004-5), Bardiel and Mama Suzuhara, Armisael and EVA-00, and, of course, Lilith and Adam (and Yui, and Shinji).

Wow, I realized that there is so much stuff that they never actually tell you in the films. That bugs me quite a bit.

I don't like to be spoonfed all the time by fiction, but, yeah, it can be a bit (or a lot) frustrating.

Though it gives fan-geeks something to do.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:26 PM

[Magami No ER [ANF]]

^Adam's soul is not in Gendo's embryonic infused hand until he brings all the parts together. That is too say, Adam's soul from Kaworu's disembodied head. I find this action more implied in the context of the show then mere speculation personally, considering the dialogue of that scene of Gendo with Rei in Terminal Dogma.

Edit-wow, everyone jumped on that all at once. O.o Nr'mind.

I had been forever questioning the validity of the "un/avoidability" of 2nd Impact since I first watched all of NGE. And I had always just assumed, in the absence of anything else to go by (even here apparently) that this wasn't the case, just the propaganda of a cult. Seele. Their goals were justifiable only in their minds, so they must rely recurring reiteration that worse things were to come if they did not ?act?. This is of course not that case, since if, I've come to just accept myself, they'd left Adam alone, eh, nothing would've happened. But they kept this up to extend their power and utilize their resources, even the very people who?ve become consricpted (not really) into Seele, to work for it?s so-called ?betterment? goals, using what they found(Adam-tachi) prophesied in some magical but nontheless fanwankable Dead sea Scrolls. Yay runon.
Unless we are given something more concrete in which this was not the case, I'd certainly believe. Is this just too simplistic an answer? Eh. I've forgotten so many of the little translation issues and outside sources(CI) that play into this mess. It's merely ambiguous writing the way I see this part, a factor in the story both important but at the same time not very much so in the grand scheme of the heart of the story, being more akin to is how the people were affected by these circumstances.
And uh...yeah, I wantsa Rebuild as well.^^

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:34 PM

[Katayoku no Tenshi [ANF]]

Oro-oro?

I remember you using another word for the ... Larval form angels, and using it to describe what Adam became ... maybe. It began with an 'M' Mandala, Mandola or Something.

Adam's body hasn't really been assimilated into Gendo's body or anything, just sorta sunken into his palm a bit. I'd still say they're two separate vessels.

That's ok then.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:35 PM

[ElDusto [ANF]]

I remember you using another word for the ... Larval form angels, and using it to describe what Adam became ... maybe. It began with an 'M' Mandala, Mandola or Something.
That's ok then.

Mandala
Function: noun
Etymology: Sanskrit mandala circle
1 : a Hindu or Buddhist graphic symbol of the universe; specifically : a circle enclosing a square with a deity on each side that is used chiefly as an aid to meditation
2 : a graphic and often symbolic pattern usually in the form of a circle divided into four separate sections or bearing a multiple projection of an image

A Mandola is a guitar-like instrument.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:47 PM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

I remember you using another word for the ... Larval form angels, and using it to describe what Adam became ... maybe. It began with an 'M' Mandala, Mandola or Something.
That's ok then.

They be called mandorlas

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:54 PM

[Katayoku no Tenshi [ANF]]

Annoyingly the CI gives responsibility first to Adam and them (impliedly)to the Katsuragi team.

Adam, the First Angel -- and the cause of Second Impact

The other Seed of Life, Adam, was awakened by humankind. The Katsuragi
Investigation Team frantically attempted to reseal her using the Spear of
Longinus, but failed.

Then potentially to either of them.

Ultimately, through the phenomenon of the S2 Engine apparently going into overdrive by artificial means

My brain's obviously shut down. Where did this come from: "before the other Angels awakened"?

They be called mandorlas

That'd be the one thanks.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:59 PM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

Where did this come from: ?before the other Angels awakened??

Duh, it came from Misato.

Misato:
They plan to initiate Third Impact - not with Angels, but by using the Eva series.
15 years ago, Second Impact was caused by humans on purpose.
But that was in order to minimize the damage by returning Adam to an embryonic state before the other Angels awoke.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 09:03 PM

[Katayoku no Tenshi [ANF]]

^ Right right I was just reading the CI and ep 21, then ctrl + f didn't seem to have any effect in Notepad. Hey forgive me it's 2 am. Holy crap it's 2am.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 09:16 PM

[faetaleti [ANF]]

Katayoku%?7;Tenshi do you live in Europe then? Is this thread for everyone in the entire world? Mm.

15 years ago, Second Impact was caused by humans on purpose.
But that was in order to minimize the damage by returning Adam to an embryonic state before the other Angels awoke.

People consider humans lessening the damage of the Second Impact at that specific time to make sure there wasn't a bigger explosion. But what if Misato meant minimizing the damage for the future, and not for the 2I. Like humans definately caused the 2I, and Adam wasn't going to make it worse from it's S2 engine freaking.

Does that make any sense?

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 10:55 PM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

The problem with that is Misato says humanity caused 2I on purpose. You can't really cause something that's already happening.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 11:02 PM

[Reichu [ANF]]

The problem with that is Misato says humanity caused 2I on purpose. You can't really cause something that's already happening.

I double-checked the Japanese. It literally says, "The Second Impact of 15 years ago was something devised by humans."

"Devised" in the sense of "set up", "fixed", "arranged", "plotted out", etc.

The rest looks alright. (Mostly.) But JUST FOR YOU, AEF -- and my own whims -- here's a mod:

The Second Impact, 15 years ago, was something that humans devised.
But that was in order to minimize the damage, by retroverting Adam all the way to an egg before the other Angels would awaken.

If you listen VERY closely, you can hear Shinji say "lolwut" after this particular dialogue.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 11:35 PM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

I double-checked the Japanese. It literally says, "The Second Impact of 15 years ago was something devised by humans."

"Devised" in the sense of "set up", "fixed", "arranged", "plotted out", etc.

Caused on purpose isn't that off base in this case. It certainly sounds like a purposeful act. Though it doesn't say which humans planed it, fufufu. My money is on SEELE. You know, we must take over the world to complement all of humanity. When you look at it they needed an enemy as a reason to build the Evas as a weapon, using that to hide the real purpose of the Eva Series, HIP. I'm hating these guys more and more.

The rest looks alright. (Mostly.) But JUST FOR YOU, AEF -- and my own whims -- here's a mod:

Haha , I could have done that myself you know. :Goes of to edit 25':

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 11:52 PM

[Ornette [ANF]]

But Seele called it a "disaster"

COMMITTEEMAN B:
It's the same as it was fifteen years ago. A disaster comes as it will,
without warning.

Is it possible that she means "an accident caused by humans"?

Originally posted on: 02.04.2007, 12:02 AM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

LMAO more sloppy writing related to this topic. How much more contradictory information can we possibly find?

Originally posted on: 02.04.2007, 12:11 AM

[Reichu [ANF]]

Caused on purpose isn't that off base in this case. It certainly sounds like a purposeful act. Though it doesn't say which humans planed it, fufufu. My money is on SEELE.

Well, if one want to ascribe what Misato says to the Seele side of things, and what the CI says to the Katsuragi Team side of things, this mess might become more fanwankable.

The whole "retroversion to an egg" (and simultaneous asplode) still needs to be tended to. And what "damage" would Misato be referring to? It should already be apparent that ascribing "minimize the damage" to what was unfolding at the South Pole doesn't work very well.

How did Adam's S2 go into "artificial overdrive", anyway? They say it was by artificial means, meaning Lilim were responsible, natch. It also says that this prevented the Bigger, Badder 2I, I'm guessing since it made Adam asplode before she could finish her work (unable to control S2, it ends up linking with her built-in Suicide Bomber provision, and you know the rest).

Considering the chance of bringing upon the Bigger, Badder 2I, weren't Seele taking an awfully huge risk, assuming, yes, the 2I that happened was All According To Plan (More or Less)?

And how does what Seele say in episode #02 fit into everything?

And, yet again, the intimate encounter with YOU KNOW WHO is ascribed as the ultimate trigger for the entire mess. So how does violating a giant god in mysterious ways and making her LOL PREGGERS connect to her S2 going ballistic, the activation of Operation Retake Earth, etc., etc.?

You know, we must take over the world to complement all of humanity.

Does that include Adam and the Apostles?

When you look at it they needed an enemy as a reason to build the Evas as a weapon, using that to hide the real purpose of the Eva Series, HIP.

Well, since they're Seele, they can theoretically do whatever the hell they want anyway, but I'll put the above into the spin cycle of my brain.

I could have done that myself you know.

Don't get sore, d00d. I managed to incorporate a much-ignored made this time. (ALLLLLLLL the way to an egg.) And "retrovert" is a cool word that actually means "restore to origins", which here conveys kangen better than "return", in my opinion.

And stuff.

Originally posted on: 02.04.2007, 12:22 AM

[Reichu [ANF]]

But Seele called it a "disaster"

CRAP YOU BEAT ME TO IT.

Is it possible that she means "an accident caused by humans"?

Based on the contextual examples at SpaceAlc and my dictionary entries, the verb does not seem to carry the connotations of a slip-up in any way whatsoever, but something entirely intentional. (Everything above %?2;%?6;%?9;.)

LMAO more sloppy writing related to this topic. How much more contradictory information can we possibly find?

ITS NOT CONTRADICTORY IF YOU FANWA-- I MEAN INTERPRET IT A CERTAIN WAY.

Originally posted on: 02.04.2007, 12:27 AM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

Well, if one want to ascribe what Misato says to the Seele side of things, and what the CI says to the Katsuragi Team side of things, this mess might become more fanwankable.

My brain is going to rather twisted place right now I'll get back to you on this tomorrow, or later today.

Does that include Adam and the Apostles?

I dunno!

Well, since they're Seele, they can theoretically do whatever the hell they want anyway, but I'll put the above into the spin cycle of my brain.

So they controlled everything before 2I? What better reason can you give someone to follow you than saying we're all gonna die and only we have the answer to save our collective arses. You're certainly not going to walk up to them and say LOL we wanna turn everyone into a giant hive mind of metabolic energy for all enternity.

Don't get sore, d00d.

You missed the invisible sarcasm tags?

Originally posted on: 02.04.2007, 12:38 AM

[AnonymousEvafan [ANF]]

My brain is going to rather twisted place right now I'll get back to you on this tomorrow, or later today.

Or I could have an epiphany that just screams POST ME.

ZOMG I really think I've got it so here goes.

First off, that Contest of Survival line in the CI makes me think you were right on the money with the Adam handicap, Reichu! Adam WAS going to wake up on her own, and when she did she had one helluva choice to make. She gave up all she knew for Operation Eternal Proof, so does she just forget about that sacrifice and let the Lilim be, or does she engage in Operation Retake the Planet, potentially killing billions of people that don't have the slightest clue what the fsck is going on? SEELE made that choice for her! They got to her before she woke up and had plans to revert her to an egg so no Contest of Survival could take place, but they needed info on the S? organ for use in their own plans. So during Dr. Katsuragi's experimentation on Adam's organ the research team accidentally wakes her up!

All that experimenting on her was a run-up to making the Eva Series, power suppression and so on. When Adam wakes up She thinks the Lilim found the SDSS and are making a pre-emptive strike, which they are, so she's pissed. Que MASSIVE AATF. Adam waking up WAS NOT part of the plan, so it really was a disaster in the truest sense of the word. There was probably going to be damage from their plan but not to the extent of what happened. Adam is converting the atmosphere and nullifying ATF's, this is BAD, so the research team tries to put her back to sleep. Unfortunately the Spear doesn't give a damn what the Lilim want because this is in the fine print of the Seed contract, if two of you should end up on the same planet your kids must fight to decide who is really worthy of carrying out our goals. Nice huh?

She notices that she's been wired to blow and hurries up and hands out souls to the kids. Shortly there after BIG BOOM that knocks the planet off it's axis and alters global weather patterns. Well sh!t, that wasn't part of the plan! The other Angels will come so it's time to pool our resources and make a stand! Meanwhile in their secret meetings SEELE laughs at the fact that though it wasn't planed the way it happened, now they've gain control of the world. They have the perfect setup to put the pieces in place for HIP and there isn't anything anyone can do about it.

Well that was a half an hour of work, what do you guys think?

Originally posted on: 02.04.2007, 01:25 AM