The Problem of Second Impact, or, Sloppy Writing is Sloooopy

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The Problem of Second Impact, or, Sloppy Writing is Sloooopy

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:51 am

A tangent from this thread.

First, the set-up:
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faetaleti wrote:I was wondering...

... In the 2I ... the explosion was caused somewhat by matter and anti-matter coming together?

ElDusto wrote:2I was caused by the energy released by Adam when her S2 engine overloaded, when the scientists tried to reduce Adam to an embryo form.

Reichu wrote:I still don't totally get this, since Adam's S^2 went ballistic first (and through no fault of her own), and surely would have led to nothing good, THEN the Team attempted to use the Spear to do mysterious and inexplicable things. How did their efforts cause 2I if 2I was essentially bound to happen anyway?

Katayoku%?7;Tenshi wrote:Erm ... they made 2I happen like it did? It would have happened without them reducing Adam but it would have happened ... more. They caused 2I by trying to prevent the worse 2I. So they get the blame.

Reichu wrote:SLOPPY WRITING IN NGE IS SLOOOOOOOOOPPY.

AnonymousEvafan wrote:I've got to say, this is the third worst batch of writing in NGE. Why the heck do you cause 2I to prevent a worse 2I if Adam was in suspended animation? ... This is right up there with 3I and 24'.

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NEW:
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Well, she wasn't in suspended animation anymore. Her oRgAn went ballistic because they were screwing around with her. But, that aside, it's, yes, the suggestion that the Team caused 2I by doing some weird thing with the Spear to "minimize the damage" (LOL MINIMIZE GET IT?), e.g. prevent an even bigger and badder 2I (as alluded to with frustratingly opaque Nihongo in CI), that is rather sloppy.

Also confusing is the part about "before the other Angels awakened". I mean, yeah, that lets us know that they already existed at least, but forwarding THAT as the specific reason why the Team attempted to use Spear Magic on Adam -- uh, what? Shouldn't the instantaneous annihilation of every last LDO on Earth be a bigger concern than the smaller detail of the 14 1/2 Apostles getting souls and hatching after a prolonged incubation*? I mean, as long as they could manage to put Adam back to sleep, they could deal with the Apostles even if she gave them souls.

* Assuming that's what they mean by "waking up", anyway, since I can't figure on anything else.

And the whole retroversion thing makes no real sense to me. Why not just use the Spear to subdue her like it had been doing all along? "HEY GUYS LET'S NOT DO WHAT WE KNOW WORKS, LET'S DO SOMETHING REALLY WEIRD LIKE REVERT HER TO AN EARLIER FORM OF DEVELOPMENT INSTEAD." Unless this weirdness was the Inexplicable Will of the Spear, but that doesn't fit with "that was in order to minimize the damage by returning Adam to an egg".

OH WAIT the CI says they were using the Spear in an attempt to "reseal her" LOL. So who is right? And the CI also ascribes the prevention of the bigger and badder 2I to the bousou S2, not any actions taken by the Team. Something smells funny.

And I still don't understand how Adam "blew apart" and retroverted into an egg/embryo/whatever at the same time.

And how did contact with Dr. Ka--, er, the donor spur all of this crap on, anyway?


Image


LOL, thanks for nothing.


DISCLAIMER: The more flagrant sarcasm in this post can be ascribed to mental contamination from MaggotMaster @ EMF.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 11:10 AM

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Postby AnonymousEvafan [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:02 pm

Reichu wrote:Well, she wasn't in suspended animation anymore.

She would have been if they hadn't been screwing around with her.

EoE wrote:Misato:
They plan to initiate Third Impact - not with Angels, but by using the Eva series.
15 years ago, Second Impact was caused by humans on purpose.
But that was in order to minimize the damage by returning Adam to an embryonic state before the other Angels awoke.

LOL what? On purpose? Image Adam waking up and going nuts didn't seem to be part of the plan. What were they trying to do with the Spear and just what happened to it? I'm lost...Image

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 11:49 AM

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Postby faetaleti [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

And the whole retroversion thing makes no real sense to me. Why not just use the Spear to subdue her like it had been doing all along? "HEY GUYS LET'S NOT DO WHAT WE KNOW WORKS, LET'S DO SOMETHING REALLY WEIRD LIKE REVERT HER TO AN EARLIER FORM OF DEVELOPMENT INSTEAD." Unless this weirdness was the Inexplicable Will of the Spear, but that doesn't fit with "that was in order to minimize the damage by returning Adam to an egg".

Well in a sense, reverting Adam back into the embryotic stage would allow Gendo to put it in his hand. So maybe thats why they didn't do what they normally should have?? Although why he wanted it in his hand I don't get.

I'm stupid... so sorry if what I just said makes no sense.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 01:20 PM

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Postby AnonymousEvafan [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

faetaleti wrote:Well in a sense, reverting Adam back into the embryotic stage would allow Gendo to put it in his hand. So maybe thats why they didn't do what they normally should have?? Although why he wanted it in his hand I don't get.

What did Reichu call Sandalphon landing in the volcano? Runs off to look: Plot necessity, or something like that? I can't find the exact line so I'm working off memory.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 01:40 PM

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Postby Treize X [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

I vote we wait for Rebuild to explain everything. Image

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 02:55 PM

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Postby Soluzar [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Treize X wrote:I vote we wait for Rebuild to give us some answers and even more questions. Image

Fixed that for ya.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 03:07 PM

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Postby Tidusauron12 [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Soluzar wrote:Fixed that for ya.

FTW, Soluzar, FTW. I lol'd when I read that.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 03:13 PM

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:05 pm

AnonymousEvafan wrote:What did Reichu call Sandalphon landing in the volcano? Runs off to look: Plot necessity, or something like that?

Eh what?

Treize X wrote:I vote we wait for Rebuild to explain everything.

And anything actually explained would be intrinsically applicable to the canon of Rebuild but not "Old Century". Sucks, huh?

faetaleti wrote:Well in a sense, reverting Adam back into the embryotic stage would allow Gendo to put it in his hand.

Gendo's plan to control 3I wouldn't exist until years later (being as it was spurred on by Yui mischief she decided to confide in Fuyutsuki-sensei alone), among other problems with the above suggestion that are more difficult to articulate.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 04:21 PM

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Postby faetaleti [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:06 pm

Gendo's plan to control 3I wouldn't exist until years later (being as it was spurred on by Yui mischief she decided to confide in Fuyutsuki-sensei alone), among other problems with the above suggestion that are more difficult to articulate.

Ah, yes, didn't think of that. But question... When Adam "blew up" how did they get the embryo of it? Since the soul of Adam flew off and then was placed within Kawou (I totally forgot how to spell his name sorry), right? So then is the embryo just the body without the soul?

And why is Adam sometimes refered to as a she? Or am I mistaken?

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 04:32 PM

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:06 pm

faetaleti wrote:When Adam "blew up" how did they get the embryo of it?

How did they manage to find something so incredibly small, or...? (The stuff following "since" in your post confuzzles me.)

And why is Adam sometimes refered to as a she? Or am I mistaken?

Do a search for "Adam female", since that little issue has been argued into a bloody pulp numerous times in the past (and I'd prefer that this thread not get derailed by a reiteration). You'll find the answer with minimal difficulty.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 04:37 PM

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Postby faetaleti [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:06 pm

How did they manage to find something so incredibly small, or...? (The stuff following "since" in your post confuzzles me.)

I believe in your CI it states that the soul of Adam was implanted to make Kaworu, the 5th child. Does it not?

At the time of Second Impact, her body was torn apart, and her soul flew off somewhere as a result. It was later recovered by Seele and incarnated, taking the form called Kaworu Nagisa.

Ah, and thanks for the female Adam question. I would have never thought that Adam was both male and female. Hmm.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 04:44 PM

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:06 pm

Refresh my memory, why was 2I unavoidable? Is it because people found the whitemoon, and bound to meddle with things?

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 04:48 PM

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Postby ElDusto [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:08 pm

Ornette wrote:Refresh my memory, why was 2I unavoidable? Is it because people found the whitemoon, and bound to meddle with things?

If they hadn't messed with Adam, 2I would never have happened. Unfourtunately, people like to play with things, even if they don't know what it is, and they caused 2I.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 05:00 PM

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

faetaleti wrote:I believe in your CI it states that the soul of Adam was implanted to make Kaworu, the 5th child. Does it not?

Indeed it does. This is essentially stated in the show, as well.

Ah, and thanks for the female Adam question. I would have never thought that Adam was both male and female. Hmm.

I've sent you a PM about this.

Ornette wrote:Refresh my memory, why was 2I unavoidable? Is it because people found the whitemoon, and bound to meddle with things?

WAS it unavoidable? I can only recall 3I ever being described as such.

But I sort of fanwanked something to that effect in that silly "~ The First Ancestors" thing I wrote.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 07:36 PM

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Postby AnonymousEvafan [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

Reichu wrote:Eh what?

I think it was in the Revalations threads somewhere. You made a comment about however unlikely Sandalphon landing in the volcano was, the plot/narrative demanded it to be so. I'm proposing this to be yet another case of this phenomenon.

But I sort of fanwanked something to that effect in that silly "~ The First Ancestors" thing I wrote.

Come on, Scenario Fun Fun Happy Time is made of WIN.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 07:49 PM

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

I was refering to this quote:
Reichu wrote:I still don't totally get this, since Adam's S^2 went ballistic first (and through no fault of her own), and surely would have led to nothing good, THEN the Team attempted to use the Spear to do mysterious and inexplicable things. How did their efforts cause 2I if 2I was essentially bound to happen anyway?



Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 07:49 PM

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Postby faetaleti [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

When Adam "blew up" how did they get the embryo of it? Since the soul of Adam flew off and then was placed within Kawou (I totally forgot how to spell his name sorry), right? So then is the embryo just the body without the soul?

I believe I started talking about this with you Reichu, but never finished it.

faetaleti wrote:I believe in your CI it states that the soul of Adam was implanted to make Kaworu, the 5th child. Does it not?

Indeed it does. This is essentially stated in the show, as well.

So then how can Adam's soul be in Kaworu and in Gendo's hand? Does the embryo not contain the soul then? Thanks !!

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 07:59 PM

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

faetaleti wrote:So then how can Adam's soul be in Kaworu and in Gendo's hand? Does the embryo not contain the soul then? Thanks !!

Embryo does not contain a soul until Kaworu gets squished. Soul then ends up in embryo, which is stuck into Rei, who returns to Lilith, that turns into GNR, which turns into GNK.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:14 PM

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Postby Katayoku no Tenshi [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

Image
They salvaged Adam's soul from Kaworu's remains. Although putting it in the embryo/egg/Reichu's word (man- something [althought this one does look like an embryo...]) creats a number of problems, not least of which is the fact thant It would basicaly mean having Adam's soul and Gendo's soul in the same place.

Edit:
I'd prefer that this thread not get derailed by a reiteration

Sorry Image

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:14 PM

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:09 pm

AnonymousEvafan wrote:I think it was in the Revalations threads somewhere. You made a comment about however unlikely Sandalphon landing in the volcano was, the plot/narrative demanded it to be so. I'm proposing this to be yet another case of this phenomenon.

The one about the FAR/Angels/DSS. IIRC, that comment was referencing something I heard about how Anno's own whimsies specifically demanded a battle in a volcano*, and in doing so had invisible irony tags.

(I don't have sauce for that ATM.)

Come on, Scenario Fun Fun Happy Time is made of WIN.

I'm glad you approve.

Ornette wrote:I was refering to this quote:

Ah... "Unavoidable" in the sense that, if nothing had been done, Adam was going to make even bigger fireworks.

Well, theoretically. It's hard to say much for sure since Misato's 2I exposition and the CI seem to be butting heads.

faetaleti wrote:So then how can Adam's soul be in Kaworu and in Gendo's hand? Does the embryo not contain the soul then?

Initially, no. Seele says that Adam's salvaged soul exists only in Kaworu. But since Adam's soul ends up in Lilith later, Gendo must have done another salvage operation behind the scenes, making the switcheroo from Kaworu's corpse (or what was left of it, anyhow) to the embryo.

^ EDIT: CURSES I'VE BEEN FOILED.

Originally posted on: 02.03.2007, 08:14 PM


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