Reichu explains it all...

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Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 pm

I want to bring to this forum's attention this amazingly insightfull (to me, anyway) post on Anime-Forums EVA forum by our own Reichu:
Reichu wrote:This is only hinted at vaguely, but Yui's future career choices were either to (A) become the soul of EVA-01 or (B) get shot in the back by one of SEELE's grunts. Her conversation with Fuyutsuki seems to imply that Yui herself was targeted for elimination due to having goals contrary to those of SEELE, so uniting with the Eva was actually the best possible thing to do. SEELE could not dispose of EVA-01 like they could Yui herself, and, as the Eva, Yui would still have a chance to prevent SEELE's scenario for Third Impact.

Also, the limited amount of time available to Yui nicely explains why she carried out her EVA-01 Contact Experiment before the Eva had finished growing and was still attached to Lilith.

Reichu, you are a genius! You have managed to make sense of what I always considered one of the most enigmatic conversations in the entire series!
Episode 21 - Yui/Fuyutsuki under a tree with baby Shinji

[telop:_ 2003 AD]

[telop:_ Hakone - Lake Ashinoko levee]


Fuyutsuki:
The same weather day after day... The disappearance of autumn from this country is sad beyond words._ According to the scenario in SEELE's Secret Dead Sea Scrolls, Third Impact will definitely occur in a little over ten years.

Yui:
SEELE and Gehirn - organizations for preventing the final tragedy.

Fuyutsuki:
I support your intentions - Not SEELE's.


Yui:
Professor Fuyutsuki, it would be terribly dangerous to break that seal onto the world.

_
Fuyutsuki:
I've given all the materials to Ikari._ It's not something one can do alone._ (pause)

__
(cont'd)
We won't repeat what happened last time.


Oh, and I've also been given a warning -
It seems that it would be no trouble at all for them to erase me.


Yui:
And those who survived as well._ It's easy to exterminate people.


Fuyutsuki:
Still, that's no reason for you to become a test subject.

Yui:
Everything happens as it must._ That is why I am with SEELE - for Shinji's sake...


This makes a whole lot of things fall into place...

I think it should be obvious now why this was one of the DC scenes considered significant enough to be retained on the Death (True)^2 cut of D&R...

Originally posted on: 18-Jan-2004, 22:30 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 pm

I figured that Yui was planned the whole thing about being absorbed in Eva01 but never really understood all the details....well not until now...Image...thanks Image

Originally posted on: 18-Jan-2004, 23:32 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:Reichu, you are a genius! You have managed to make sense of what I always considered one of the most enigmatic conversations in the entire series!



A-arigatou... I'm not sure if I'm a genius, but hearing stuff like that sure brings a pink flush to my cheeks! Image

[Just to give credit where it's due, I think Dr. Nick's comments in this thread helped my thought process out a bit.]

Originally posted on: 18-Jan-2004, 23:43 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 pm

Reichu wrote:A-arigatou... I'm not sure if I'm a genius, but hearing stuff like that sure brings a pink flush to my cheeks! Image

[Just to give credit where it's due, I think Dr. Nick's comments in this thread helped my thought process out a bit.]

Er... well I guess that makes Dr Nick a genius too! Image
Hmm, I don't know how i missed all that, but I don't remember that stuff, even tho I was posting in that thread too...
Anyway, now that we all understand Yui's intentions and motivations, I take back everything I said about her being the biggest lunatic in the whole series; like I indicated above, this makes a whole lot of stuff fall into place.

Originally posted on: 18-Jan-2004, 23:57 GMT

tv33 [ANF]
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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 pm

I knew that she was going in to protect the world from the evil old men of SEELE (I got that much when she said "That is why I am with SEELE - for Shinji's sake... " ). I did not however know why she chose then, I also did not know about SEELE's plans to ice her.


Gendo must not have known of SEELE's plans to kill Yui, if he did I think it would have been the old men of SEELE who would meet with an untimely end. And if he could not kill them, I doubt he would have been willing to work with them in the future.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 00:10 GMT

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Postby Lord Kuroishi [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:29 pm

And all this time, I thought Yui was just plain crazy. But thanks to Reichu, I have a newfound respect for the Evas' souls. Reichu, you truly are the ruler of all Eva forums.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 00:11 GMT

tv33 [ANF]
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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

Starmorpher wrote:And all this time, I thought Yui was just plain crazy.



Did you guys really think Yui just decided to have her soul absorbed for the hell of it? Just for kicks? And then when they tried to get her out she said "Ah, what the hell, I rather like it in here."?

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 00:15 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

It's interesting to look at this scene in light of what we're discussing here:
(Ep25' Air)
SCENE: SEELE monoliths - Gendo and Fuyutsuki

SEELE 01 (Keel):
The promised time has come.
With the Lance of Longinus now lost, complementation using Lilith is impossible.
Our only hope is to proceed with EVA-01, Lilith's sole clone.

Gendo:
While different from SEELE's scenario...

Fuyutsuki:
Humans have existed to create Eva. (ambiguous)

Gendo:
Humans should evolve into a new world. That is the purpose of the Eva series.

SEELE 09:
We have no intention of giving up our human forms simply to enter the Ark called Eva.

SEELE 12:
It is merely a rite of passage... To bring about the rebirth in those who are imprisoned.

SEELE 05(?):
The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.

SEELE 04(?):
A sacrament to unite God, humans, and all other life forms in death. [<<Reichu, please note]

Gendo:
Death gives birth to nothing.

SEELE 01 (Keel):
Then death is what you shall have.

(SEELE monoliths disappear)

Fuyutsuki:
Humans exist because they have the will to live...
And that is the reason she remained within Eva.


Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 00:31 GMT

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

Wow. Cool. I've been wondering about that for a while, now it makes sense.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 01:06 GMT

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Postby NakedEYE666 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

Awsome Reichu, just goes to prove that this Evangelion forum harbors the best equipped people to solve Evangelion's mysteries. Anyone like to take a stab at Rei's creation? People have tried to explain it to me but I can't grasp a single thing about it.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 01:14 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

Glad that my little post has proven to be so illuminating to others. I don't believe anyone has commented on how all this resolves the odd timing of the Contact Experiment (i.e., "Why not wait until your Eva is fully grown?"), which had plagued me a bit more than how painfully obtuse Yui and Kouzou's conversation is.

As far as the dialogue from 26' you've quoted, Shin-seiki, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at. Are you just highlighting the fact that Yui stayed in the Eva because it was better than getting shot in the back and being erased forever? Because, as they put it, she has the will to live?

NakedEYE666 wrote:Awsome Reichu, just goes to prove that this Evangelion forum harbors the best equipped people to solve Evangelion's mysteries.



Perhaps at the current point in time, anyway. No doubt other great folks have contributed to the fandom in the past, only to lose interest and move onto other things.

Anyone like to take a stab at Rei's creation? People have tried to explain it to me but I can't grasp a single thing about it.



Didn't I summarize MDWigs' theory on this rather recently? In case you missed it, it's here -- scroll down towards the bottom of that page.

So the salvage of 2005 failed because Yui didn't want to leave Shogouki. Is this because she believed that, if she returned to human form, she would just be putting herself in death's path yet again? (KEEL: "Hmm, that Ikari lady seems to have showed up again. You know what to do, my puppets." GRUNTS: "Ja woll, Herr Lorenz!")

As far as Rei goes, Rei-001 was, presumably, formed from Yui's distintegrated remains in the entry plug. In 2015, Ritsuko-tachi were trying to fix Shinji's soul back into his body; while we know that any LCL can become anyone's body, they were apparently trying to reform his body from its actual remnants at first. In #20, Maya explains, "Salvaging means reconstructing his body and fixing his soul into it."

So, in 2005, what happened first? Was a new body created in the entry plug and a soul put into it afterwards? What caused the body to be so much younger than Yui herself at that point? (What did Rei-001 start out as? A newborn? A zygote?) What about the pigmentation differences? And, my favorite question of all, what would pull Lilith out of her body and into a false one? I suppose there is the possibility that Lilith did it on purpose, not knowing that she would be separated from her memories in the process -- but that might be a little off the deep end.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 02:09 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

Reichu wrote:Glad that my little post has proven to be so illuminating to others. I don't believe anyone has commented on how all this resolves the odd timing of the Contact Experiment (i.e., "Why not wait until your Eva is fully grown?"), which had plagued me a bit more than how painfully obtuse Yui and Kouzou's conversation is.

As far as the dialogue from 26' you've quoted, Shin-seiki, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at. Are you just highlighting the fact that Yui stayed in the Eva because it was better than getting shot in the back and being erased forever? Because, as they put it, she has the will to live?

Well, it's a bit off-topic, but I hope you picked up on the relevance of this line:

SEELE 04(?):
A sacrament to unite God, humans, and all other life forms in death. [<<Reichu, please note]

to that other thread where we were discussing whether penguins and paramecia were included in 3I.
Beyond that I thought that scene re-enforced your point that Yui's motive was not just self-preservation, but saving the human race from the fate that SEELE had planned...
Also, I think we need to take a look at what all this talk of EVA as an Ark to ride out 3I signifies. (Fuyutsuki refers to this idea in Ep26' too)

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 02:31 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

[quote="Shin-seiki "]Well, it's a bit off-topic, but I hope you picked up on the relevance of this line:

SEELE 04(?):
A sacrament to unite God, humans, and all other life forms in death. [

Bloody banana... It was right there in front of me the whole time! Image Guess it just goes to show that in NGE, you have to be paying attention every second.

If that had been their intent all along, though, they could've used a name like the "Biota Instrumentality Project" or something.

Also, I think we need to take a look at what all this talk of EVA as an Ark to ride out 3I signifies. (Fuyutsuki refers to this idea in Ep26' too)



I'm clueless on that one at the moment. All of the souls were being gathered into the Black Moon, so I don't really know what Eva has to do with anything. Kind of makes me wonder... SEELE was intending to cause 3I with Lilith and LoL. After 22, the plan switched to EVA-01, the ryousanki, and the copy LoLs. In EoE, all of those ingredients ended up being used, with Addy-boy thrown into the mix, and somehow Shinji became important, too.

All (chanting):
Evangelion Unit 01's pilot...
Complement humankind with your imperfect ego.



The more ya analyze this stuff, the more confusing it becomes. :dead:

BTW, Shin-seiki, I edited my last post; perhaps you have something to add to that.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 02:41 GMT

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Postby yjs [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:30 pm

Wow. It's amazing things are still being uncovered this long after Eva's been released. Reading this makes me want to watch Eva again...

I agree that this is the best Eva forum on the web, now that Animeboard's Eva forum is pretty much dead.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 06:33 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:31 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:Er... well I guess that makes Dr Nick a genius too! Image


Image Thanks, but if I'm a genius, you sir are an úberpimp.
Reichu wrote:If that had been their intent all along, though, they could've used a name like the "Biota Instrumentality Project" or something.


I think there are three possible options:
1. Those old grumps of SEELE are talking partially nonsense (hey, they are a freaky apocalyptic cult after all).
2. There's an animation inconsistency in that scene where we see trees still standing after Third Impact.
3. TI affects to humans and animals but not plants, which explains the trees (yeah, right :rolleyesImage.

I'm going to go with number one here.

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 18:53 GMT

Shin-seiki [ANF]
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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:31 pm

Dr. Nick wrote:Image Thanks, but if I'm a genius, you sir are an úberpimp.

I think there are three possible options:
1. Those old grumps of SEELE are talking partially nonsense (hey, they are a freaky apocalyptic cult after all).
2. There's an animation inconsistency in that scene where we see trees still standing after Third Impact.
3. TI affects to humans and animals but not plants, which explains the trees (yeah, right :rolleyesImage.

I'm going to go with number one here.

I'm going with option 2, myself.
BTW, have you been following this thread?

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 19:01 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:31 pm

I've tried to transfer the last few points from this thread back to the other one, so check that out. I'm still waiting for people to take a stab at addressing those other Yui-related mysteries I mentioned. Image

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 19:52 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:31 pm

Reichu:

I'm still waiting for people to take a stab at addressing those other Yui-related mysteries I mentioned.


I'll take a shot at it... but give me a couple of weeks. I'm getting on a plane in two days to fly 20 hours half way around the world. Once I set up shop in my new place I'll do my best to reply (if this thread is still here by then).

Originally posted on: 19-Jan-2004, 23:18 GMT

Reichu [ANF]
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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:31 pm

MDWigs wrote:I'll take a shot at it... but give me a couple of weeks. I'm getting on a plane in two days to fly 20 hours half way around the world. Once I set up shop in my new place I'll do my best to reply (if this thread is still here by then).



We'll miss you dearly in the meantime. ;_;

I still am somewhat perplexed that virtually every time I bring up some of my nagging questions, they are all but overlooked by the majority of the people here... Ah, well, I'm used to it by now. Me and my giant otaku-prod will coerce discussion from you yet!

Originally posted on: 20-Jan-2004, 18:07 GMT

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Postby MDWigs [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:31 pm

It's becuase you ask the big questions that nobody has answers too!

Originally posted on: 21-Jan-2004, 08:55 GMT


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