Adam's embryo, a few things concerning it...

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

Great now I'm lost, how exactly does Kaji fit in to the KKKK? Because he's similar to Misato's father or is there some disturbing sexual connection I'm missing. Please dear god do not tell me that Kaji had secks with Keel, or a threeway with Kaworu. *stumbles to the bathroom to vomit*

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 02:11 GMT

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Postby AsukaxSohryux [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

Seele08 wrote:Great now I'm lost, how exactly does Kaji fit in to the KKKK? Because he's similar to Misato's father or is there some disturbing sexual connection I'm missing. Please dear god do not tell me that Kaji had secks with Keel, or a threeway with Kaworu. *stumbles to the bathroom to vomit*



That would truly be disturbing. Image_

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 02:59 GMT

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

Seele08 wrote:Great now I'm lost, how exactly does Kaji fit in to the KKKK?


http://animenation.net/forums/showp...5&postcount=450

from a few pages back

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 03:10 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

There is also, of course, the whole Kaji-Dad thing, which is pretty much a given. Since Kaji and Akira are inseparable, any connection made between Kaji and Kaworu ultimately involves Akira (who is the other "Ka" guy, "Katsuragi-hakase"), too...

I laid out a bunch of things in "Let's Start It Over". The next batch will be coming up in "3-2-1 Eye Contact! / The Giant Irony Nuke", which will hopefully be the final say on the matter. (Gawd! I can only hope!! Image)

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 04:01 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

Perhaps Keel has Asperger's Syndrome



Frankly I suspect more than half the characters on the show would qualify for being diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome as laid out in DSMIV. Maybe Misato, Hikari, Toji, and Kaji wouldn't but the rest of them.....are pretty disconnected from eachother and reality in general.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 04:06 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

There is a helluva lot more to Asperger's Syndrome than that. What you are talking about has more to do with the human condition... Aspies have a rather more specific set of problems.

"Goddamit! Turn down that mutha****ing hiphop already!"
"I did turn it down, you stupid *****!"
"I don't have to put up with this ****! I'm paying good money to go to this college!"
"...."

"I've noticed that your social skills are a little off."
"Uh, what do you mean?"
"Well, you blink a lot and you're having trouble with eye contact."
"WAH! Leave me alone! I just met you!"

And there's stuff like being obsessed with one show for five and a half years, too. But not to the exclusion of progress in life, self-improvement, and the pursuit of self-actualization. And the stabilization of my medication. Of course.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 04:17 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

I'm glad I'm not the only one who blinks constantly.
I tend to cycle between obsessions, last summer it was Big O for me, I would highly suggest Big O for any one who likes Eva, the first season isn't nearly as good as the second so should you try to get into it be patient with it. The second season kicks so many kinds of *** it's unholy.
I tend to think the characters of Eva fall into the diagnostic categories of either Asperger's Syndrome, Schizoid Peronality disorder, Dependent Personality Disorder (definetly Ritsuko and Naoko), Manic-Depressive Disorder, or good ol' Schizophrenia.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 04:29 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:56 pm

It's probably one of those defining Aspie traits, don't you think? Annoying as hell, but there's only so much one can do...

And psychological diagnoses tend to be oversimplifications, a lot of times... There's nature, nurture, and all sorts of other stuff that help produce every little screwed-up human being on this planet. We are all unique snowflakes. (But not always beautiful.) Things are never simple when it comes to us Demon Spawn of Lilith, and, since the characters in NGE operate upon real-life human psychology (which is why they are so much fun), they aren't going to be any different. But I'm sure some of the categories you mention apply. I can't say, since I haven't fully explored it myself.

But I personally haven't noticed anyone who qualifies for Aspieness in particular. I would definitely notice. Unless they have been tortured in psychotherapy and social skills programs like me since adolescence, they stick out like a mola in a school of sea bass! "You're an Aspy! Don't try to deny it!"

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 04:40 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

Unless they have been tortured in psychotherapy and social skills programs like me since adolescence



I didn't get that lucky, my parents knew something was wrong with me, but being psycho-hardcore-baptist-christians, refused to take me to a pyschiatrist or even talk to my doctor about it for years. My dad even got into a fight with his sister-in-law who suggested they take me to a doctor. Finally around the time my mom got cancer, and my grandma was dying I just about compeletly and utterley lost my mind and they finally took me to a therapist. It took about five years for us to discover I had Asperger's syndrome from there. Ever since than Paxil has been my very best freind.

Here's a hot tip, Aspie ultra-logic and religious fundamentalism don't mix. In middle school I was depressed, kind of turned into an emo. I was drawing these uber-depressing landscapes and the jack-*** principle sees them and asks what I'm drawing. So I answer "land of depression #7" and he says to me, and he's dead serious, "Would Jesus draw that?". I wasn't sure if I should have been angry at him, or just laughed in his face at that point. I just told him I wasn't sinning according to his rules and it was A-OK.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 04:51 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

Seele08 wrote:I didn't get that lucky, my parents knew something was wrong with me, but being psycho-hardcore-baptist-christians, refused to take me to a pyschiatrist or even talk to my doctor about it for years.



Yeah, IMHO, it is horrible when religion gets in the way of human well-being. (Isn't that the opposite of what it's purportedly supposed to do?) This is one problem I never had to deal with, since my folks are both essentially nature-worshippers, and I think only my dad is technically religious (pantheism). They wanted to expand the world views of their three kids, though, so we were exposed to various faiths at a Unitarian Fellowship at an early age. It's an awesome idea, but none of us chose to follow up, even though the choice was ours. My older sister did become Wiccan much later on, though.

I've been very lucky in that I've had a great support system. The Asperger's was very blatant ever since I was a wee babe, and I received various therapies at school related to it over the years, although I wasn't officially diagnosed until around the 6th Grade. Probably because puberty is an absolutely horrible time of life, and that's when depression began to strike; the other diagnoses were just made in lieu with it. (But I can't remember exactly. That was around a decade ago. Boy, I feel old!) I started to get attention around then, and, although I've been trained extensively over the years and have learned to adapt around most of my inherent Aspie "disabilities" (hey, there are actually some nifty benefits...), of course it will always be there, since that's just who I am. And there are various other neurological problems as well, but at least it keeps life from getting too boring... Image

Boy, that's off-topic. I'm supposed to be sleeping right now, too.

To divert things back on topic a little, let me just say a couple of things. First, somewhat gratuitously: Kaji has always been my second favorite character. (My first favorite should be so obvious that it goes without saying. Image ) However, in light of the KKKK, Kaji's been needing to make room in my heart for a certain two others right alongside him. The deeper into this I get, the harder it becomes to tell where one of them ends and the next one begins. Although they are not the same, Akira, Kaji, and Kaworu simply flow into one another as characters. I find myself loving them all, despite their flaws. (Part of loving somebody is accepting their flaws, after all.)

And onto more professional things: Akira's pendant. I haven't thought about this very much, but I'm guessing that it implies some degree of spirituality on his part -- or, at least, a clinging to a spirituality that he has lost touch with (like much else in his life). I am thinking that the pendant has multiple layers of meaning that I have not yet considered, and I can't remember at the moment what, if anything, has already been established about it. So if anybody has something to offer up, I would love to hear it.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 05:39 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

This doesn't really have a hell of a lot to do with the KKKK, but I was thinking about the implication of Keel's mechanical parts...err could the mostly mechanical body be semi-symbolic of a robot or a "doll". Gendo used him and when he had no further purpose ignored him. His treatment of Rei is actually remarkebly similar to his treatmenf of Keel. I've always wondered if Gendo had some influence over him via the cybernetics.

The cross passing on symbolism? Possibly the passing of the responsibiliy of fighting/stopping the Angels. Or just a sentiment for her to remember him by.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 09:46 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

Reichu wrote:And onto more professional things: Akira's pendant. I haven't thought about this very much, but I'm guessing that it implies some degree of spirituality on his part -- or, at least, a clinging to a spirituality that he has lost touch with (like much else in his life). I am thinking that the pendant has multiple layers of meaning that I have not yet considered, and I can't remember at the moment what, if anything, has already been established about it. So if anybody has something to offer up, I would love to hear it.



Or maybe Keel-san gave it to (in general maybe he got it from Seele), since it's the same style of cross as Lilith's...

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 14:24 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

I've always wondered, why does SEELE, who if Reichu is to be believed, are radical Kabbalists.....use Christian imagery like crucifixtions in there dogma? It doesn't make sense Kabbalism is a funky branch of Judaism, they don't beleive that Jesus was the messiah.
And is it a sign that I might like the commitee to much if I'm using Vlad as an avatar on a non-Eva forum?

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 16:03 GMT

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

It seems cruicification has been around long before Christianity.
http://experts.about.com/q/Ancient-...ucification.htm

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 17:36 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:57 pm

Magami No ER wrote:Or maybe Keel-san gave it to (in general maybe he got it from Seele), since it's the same style of cross as Lilith's...



Lilith's is a traditional "Jesus cross"... It seems to be Lilim addition to what the FAR have cooked up down there. Actually, I'm beginning to think that Lilith had opportunity to regenerate her arms before the Salvage Operation after all -- the image that we're given shows no signs that they have yet begun violating Lilith's daughter in turn -- and she had thus been "crucified" and bleeding for quite a while after the severance. And thus... oh, cripes, you people can wait. Image

Akira's cross is symmetrical. I've heard somewhere that this ties into some faith or another -- Eastern, mayhaps, since most Japanese are not into that wonky Judaeo-Christian stuff. (I'm guessing it's wonky from a Japanese perspective, anyway, otherwise more than 3% or so of them would buy into it.) HOWEVER! Since I haven't investigated the matter, what you suggested could damn well be possible, depending on whether or not that style of cross connects into Seele's own "system" in any way.

Actually... If that panned out, it would give an extra, even enormous dose of credence to the "seduction" theory that everyone likes so much... </irony> We should definitely look into the matter further, since I think that cross is extremely important. And actually, the symbolic associations I have identified so far are Judaeo-Christian in nature, so you may be absolutely right.

If the pendant is something that Akira got as a result of being lured into Seele, that would cement the incessantly nagging feeling -- I simply cannot shake it off, no matter how hard I try -- that Akira was, very literally, seduced by Keel. It fits more and more tightly the more this puzzle comes together, and I don't think it is an accident at all. I have been an advocate of MANY once-heretical ideas over the years, but I have been vindicated so many times that I feel I have every right to stand my ground. My principle is to fiercely combine tenacity and openmindedness on a case-by-case basis.

In any case, the more I think about this, the more material I have to present to you guys, and the more important and enormous in scope the KKKK (or however many Ks you like; the other Katsuragi and Keel fit into it, too) becomes. It ties into the fabric of everything else and is an inseverible part of the story, even if its full implications haven't been determined until now. It will take time to put together, like everything else on my plate, but hopefully its impact will be as huge on you guys as Misato's Giant Irony Nuke* was on her. Image

* GIN. Cute acronym, considering one of Misato's habits. Actually, KKKK -- also entirely by chance -- will ultimately end up being quite ironic, as well. See if you can figure it out.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 17:50 GMT

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Postby Ornette [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:58 pm

I believe the square cross that Misato wears is a "Greek Cross", although I don't know if that is related to Judaeo-Christianism.

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 18:02 GMT

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Postby Magami No ER [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:58 pm

Both the Greek cross and the Rose Cross(adapted from Christian crosses, another possiblity since it involves parts of the Cabala)
come in symetrical and "Jesus" perpendicular as well. Don't know if that's a major factor in identification, the shape.
Thought this was interesting as well, in regards...somehow...to Seele(however irrelevant it may actually be in this thread);
http://www.geocities.com/go_darknes...ism.html?200627

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 18:14 GMT

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Postby Dr. Nick [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:58 pm

Reichu wrote:I laid out a bunch of things in "Let's Start It Over". The next batch will be coming up in "3-2-1 Eye Contact! / The Giant Irony Nuke", which will hopefully be the final say on the matter. (Gawd! I can only hope!! Image)


Awrighty then. I'm going to wait till you get all your stuff laid out before I'll start compiling my reply, because it's really time-consuming for me to write huge multi-paragraph posts in my second language. Apparently you have more free time anyway, so nyah~. Image

For a quick comment, I admit that after that presentation of yours I am somewhat more convinced now, but the warning signs I mentioned in my previous posts still keep bugging me. Because if this is supposed to be an irony nuke, it sure as hell remained a dud. Does this mean the director is a talentless hack? Anno-sama, nooooo!

Originally posted on: 27-Jan-2006, 19:23 GMT

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Postby Reichu [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:58 pm

Tsk tsk tsk, so cynical are you... Master Anno would be very displeased. You need to let that A.T. Field down and let some of that nuke hit, because it is very, very real. And, representing an incessant thematic repetition of ANF history, Reichu will once again have the last laugh! KeKeKeKe!

But honestly! This isn't "hack", this is vintage Anno! This is "Evangelion 101"! Trust the man, for Yuissake! People have been rolling their eyes at this show for 10 bloody years and insisting that it will never make sense, and lookit what's happening! It's helluva cool! You just can't have NGE without teh GIN. Misato can't live without her GIN. "BELCH!"

Anyway, this will take me some work, and I am very tired right now. Damn, I want my Adderal. Not that being deprived of my medication now and again doesn't have its benefits. Image Thank gawd I don't have anything better to do right now.

Originally posted on: 28-Jan-2006, 08:45 GMT

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Postby Seele08 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:58 pm

[img]http://www.evageeks.org/ANF-Archive/images/../images/Kitty Spin.gif[/img]
Seele08 wrote:This doesn't really have a hell of a lot to do with the KKKK, but I was thinking about the implication of Keel's mechanical parts...err could the mostly mechanical body be semi-symbolic of a robot or a "doll". Gendo used him and when he had no further purpose ignored him. His treatment of Rei is actually remarkebly similar to his treatmenf of Keel. I've always wondered if Gendo had some influence over him via the cybernetics.

The cross passing on symbolism? Possibly the passing of the responsibiliy of fighting/stopping the Angels. Or just a sentiment for her to remember him by.



Does no one have any love for my theories? *sniffles*

Originally posted on: 28-Jan-2006, 08:54 GMT


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