Bow before Sharp-kun's modly powers! This thread was obviously waiting to happen -- again -- so... let the games begin! :maniacal laughter:
Goldarmy wrote:Reichu I am sorry to say this but that thread was a complete waste of time. I don't need to read explaination of series using Rei=Lillith theorem taken as universal law. I need to see the scenes that prove Rei's soul is of Lillith. Also please direct me to the necessary posts so that I don't have to wallow through irrevelant words.
Well... okay. That thread was probably a bad choice. But you have to admit, it was worth it for the "Eva-themed wedding" stuff at the end.
Generally, I tend to find that it's difficult to ignore this dialogue from episode #24':
Kaoru : So you're the First Children?
Kaoru : Ayanami Rei.
Kaoru : You're the same as me.
Kaoru : We've both taken the Lilim's form as our body to live on this
Rei : Who are you?
But, heck, Kaworu's obviously babbling nonsense, just like Seele is in THIS commonly-dismissed scene:
Seele : But our hopes are materializing...
Seele : In Lilith, progenitor of humanity - the false successors from
the Black Moon...
Seele : And in Adam, progenitor of Angels - the true successors from
the lost White Moon.
Seele : And whose salvaged soul resides only within you...
But taken together with Rei 1's words in #25:
Rei 1 (off-camera) "You are no more than a fabricated object pretending to be human"
Rei 1 "Look within yourself. Is there not a mind so shrouded in darkness you can neither see nor understand it?"
Rei 1: "That is where the true you exists"
Rei 1 "Even so, there is another who is the true you"
Rei 1 "It's just that you don't know her"
Rei 1 "Because you don't want to look at it, you're just avoiding something inside you that you don't understand"
Text: "Because you're afraid"
Rei 1 (off-camera) "Because she might not have a human form"
...I'm a bit bewildered that people manage to come to any conclusion BUT "Oh... That's Lilith in there, isn't it?" As Shin-seiki's been trying to get across, the premise that Lilith's soul does some strange things that you, Knives, for whatever reason aren't willing to accept hardly detracts from what the show is clearly telling us. This is Anno's show, and if he wants to do all of these weird things -- well, that's his prerogative. I don't see how throwing all sorts of logic gabbledygook at us will do anything to change that.
I also have no idea where this idea about the three Reis having unique souls comes from. They have unique minds
, yes -- but it's not the same thing. Of course, I don't think you bought my ideas
regarding that soul/mind matter either -- but whatever. Rei's tripartite nature seems to be another rather basic thing about her nature, and if you don't "get it", you're missing the point. Rei was created to serve as Gendo's tool for HIP:
Gendo "Now, let's go. You have existed for today, this day, Rei."
And Rei herself tells us:
Rei 3 "No, I'm overjoyed"
Rei 3 (right) "I am one who desires death"
Rei 3 (left) "All I need is despair"
Rei 3 "I want to return to nothing"
Rei 2 "But you can't"
Rei 2 "You can't return to nothing"
Rei 2 "That person won't let you return"
Rei 3 "Won't let me return and end it yet"
Rei 2 (off-camera) "I existed because that person needed me"
I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean, aside from referring to the fact that Rei cannot die because Gendo will simply 'resurrect' her.
Consider also Ritsuko's babble in #23:
Ritsuko : These are dummies.
Ritsuko : And nothing but parts for Rei.
Ritsuko : However the vessel which truly contains a soul is Rei. Only
she has a soul.
Ritsuko : None of the other vessels have a soul.
Ritsuko : There was nothing within the room of Gauf.
Ritsuko : These Rei-like things here don't have a soul.
Ritsuko : Nothing but vessels.
While I have a hard time explaining precisely why, this seems to imply that even though the vessel might change from one 'Rei-like container' to another, we are still dealing with something called "Rei". Even though she might change from one incarnation to the next, there IS some continuity; it's not as if we are dealing with three completely different people. (Indeed, episode #25 serves to highlight just how similar Rei 2 and Rei 3 really are.)
Back to the point, I don't see how any other explanation aside from Rei being Gendo's attempt to puppet and influence Lilith's soul fits. If Rei just contains three random souls of no particular consequence, how the hell does this work? Remember, Rei is an artificial being, like the Evas. She is born without a soul -- one has to be PUT there, taken from something else.
Need I mention, the imagery of the Moon does, in the end, serve as another device to connect Rei to Lilith, and does Anno -ever- play this up in EoE.
But, whatever... I suppose we are all dellusionary and somehow fail to grasp what Anno is trying to tell us with all of this. We are not worthy.Originally posted on: 15-Nov-2004, 11:46 GMT