Shinji and Asuka

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Postby DufFuS101 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:59 pm

EVAN -1 wrote:I had to go through this the hard way.

Researching to find the director cut scenes and begin to rebuild my damaged mind, and re-inputting back the square peg into the circle slot.

The funny thing was that when I introduced eva to my friend, got the situation down without the extra info.

Some people can recognize the levels between the male and female dance easier.



Are you saying your friend understood the relationship between Shinji and Asuka or at least know that there is one going on? That's pretty observant as many of the clues thrown in the tv series are very subtle.

Originally posted on: 09-Jul-2003, 04:21 GMT

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Postby EVAN -1 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:59 pm

Compared to my knowledge at the time, the glaring obvious was lost on me. But not on others.

Also the square peg reference was absorbing the new information, but still got confused with later material involving Evangelion as the series went on.

Originally posted on: 09-Jul-2003, 14:03 GMT

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Postby Orin_Quon [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:59 pm

Asuka is an attention-freak. She's incapable of loving someone, but still wants people to love her. She does not love Shinji or Kaji, but she NEEDS them to love her.

Young kids are like that. They don't care about people's feelings, they just want people to pay attention at their crap. If you turn your back to them and go away, they'll cry, then run over to wherever you are and starting making crap again.

While Shinji can become a better person, Asuka is damn hard to, because she does not see anything wrong with the way she behaves. She actually is certain she is better than everyone.

In the specific case of the kiss, it was just an issue of "I need someone to worship me". So she used the poor bastard Shinji. The problem is, Shinji is too messed up to realize or do anything. He's not in love with anyone, he simply analized it as a "Being close to someone? Whoah!".

I don't think he had even figured the ramifications. It was much more to Asuka than to him. He probably took at face-value: Asuka messing around.

Even if he did, he would never be able to act loving and caring, because Shinji was never loved as a teen. He was barely loved as a kid. His mom was gone too soon.

Originally posted on: 09-Jul-2003, 23:19 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:59 pm

I agree with you tht Asuka loves attention but I think that she does have feelings for Shinji and it's just not that she wants him to love her but alos vice versa. You see this in EoE and also in the directors cut

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 01:22 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

saiyajin prince wrote:I agree with you tht Asuka loves attention but I think that she does have feelings for Shinji and it's just not that she wants him to love her but alos vice versa. You see this in EoE and also in the directors cut

What he said.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 01:26 GMT

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Postby Orin_Quon [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:What he said.



Nope.

"Feelings" and "Love" are way, waaaaay far apart.

Asuka has feelings for Shinji, but no way she's ever in love with him. They're too messed up. That's the whole point.

First they have to get themselves together, first they have to love themselves, THEN, and only then, they can live with each other.

You can't be in a relationship when you act like a crybaby or a bitch or a sex-addict or a sex slave or a day-dreaming assistant. Each and every character is doing the wrong thing when it comes to relationships. They're not acting out of love. They're just needy. That's the whole point.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 02:03 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

They both had their own problems and it was very difficult for them both to express their true feelings.

Asuka:
If you can't be all mine, then I don't need you!

Shinji:
Then, be nice to me...


They both had different ways of expressing their feelings which actually hurted them in the end


Shinji:
I want to help you in some way... and to be with you forever.

Asuka:
Then, don't do anything.
Don't come near me anymore... Because all you ever do is hurt me.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 02:09 GMT

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Postby DufFuS101 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

I don't think he's aying Asuka does not care about Shinji at all. He seems to be saying that she does has feelings for him romantic speaking, but is too messed up to move foward and act upon them. She can't learn to love him, even though at a deeper level she does wants to.

Originally posted on: 11-Jul-2003, 08:23 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Do you think that Asuka was right when she said in EoE somthing to the affect that Shinji did not love her, he just wanted anyone, it did not matter who. Or did he really love her, more than say Rei or Misato.

So I guess what I am really asking is who did he love more Asuka, Rei, or Misato? Or did it not really matter who, did he just wanted anyone?

Originally posted on: 11-Jul-2003, 08:46 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

tv33 wrote:Do you think that Asuka was right when she said in EoE somthing to the affect that Shinji did not love her, he just wanted anyone, it did not matter who. Or did he really love her, more than say Rei or Misato.

So I guess what I am really asking is who did he love more Asuka, Rei, or Misato? Or did it not really matter who, did he just wanted anyone?

He loved Asuka. Besides, Asuka is the only choice that isn't either physically (Rei) or emotionally (Misato) incestuous.

Originally posted on: 11-Jul-2003, 08:57 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Oh I know he loved her, I am just wondering if Asuka was right. Would anyone do for him? Did it not matter who, that he just wanted anyone? Was he capable of loving anyone who would give him affection?

I just wonder what other people think.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 21:14 GMT

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Postby GandalfsWhisper [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Shin-seiki wrote:He loved Asuka. Besides, Asuka is the only choice that isn't either physically (Rei) or emotionally (Misato) incestuous.



and you think incest would bother Shinji by EoE?

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 22:19 GMT

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Postby DufFuS101 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

Well, if he did'nt then Shinji would have no reason not to visit the other gals.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 22:35 GMT

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Postby Shin-seiki [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:00 pm

GandalfsStudent wrote:and you think incest would bother Shinji by EoE?

Well, yes. What do you think he meant by:

Shinji:
I... I'm scared of both Misato and Ayanami...
Help me... Help me, Asuka.

He's just found out that Rei is a clone, and he's got an idea of who she's a clone of:

Shinji:
Ayanami Rei,
It may be correct... that impression.
My mom's ...
Rei and my Mom...
What is my Father doing with these two?

As for Misato, the reason he was so freaked out by her coming on to him in ep23, was that he basically relates to her as a mother figure, a point made several times in the Complementation scenes of ep26' (of course, at that point, his last memory of her alive was of her sticking her tongue down his throat...)
Asuka is the only person he thinks he can turn to.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 22:50 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

tv33 wrote:Oh I know he loved her, I am just wondering if Asuka was right. Would anyone do for him? Did it not matter who, that he just wanted anyone? Was he capable of loving anyone who would give him affection?

I just wonder what other people think.



I would say that by later episodes of the series where he was very much depressed that anyone would do for him but at the end of EoE, I believe that he truly loves her.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 22:55 GMT

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Postby Incisivis [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

My non-refundable $0.02:

I think the Incest! angle bothered Shinji somewhat. I look at him as being sexually confused, in the sense that there's a part of him that's attracted to Rei, Misato, and Asuka, all in *that* way, but these feelings never solidify, are too nebulous and subconscious to be part of Shinji's "official" character. I think his "official" character grew to be focused on Asuka.

Besides the "she's not related to him in any biological or emotional sense" factor, I think what really drew Shinji to Asuka was that her bullying would draw him out of his shell, make Shinji argumentative and confrontational (look at episode 9 for examples). Shinji may be stuck in an emotional rut, but he certainly doesn't *want* to be, and Asuka's taunting was the closest he got to anyone helping him emotionally. (Misato gave good advice, but I never felt she really confronted Shinji). I think that's why he asks the sleeping Asuka, "Call me an idiot like you always do," in EoE.

I also think Shinji is in love with the image Asuka projects, that of the warrior. While that is a facade that crumbles, Shinji is still attached to the image, and wants to believe that she is strong and so is capable of helping him...because Shinji thinks he can't help himself.

Furthermore, I think Shinji just might be able to fall in love with anyone if they gave him what he wanted. That is why, in my mind, he gets rather flustered around Kaworu; it's not part of Shinji's individual makeup to be attracted to males, but Kaworu was a way towards some of the things Shinji wanted. The barrier of emotional or physical incest would be much harder to break, but I think it could happen.

I also believe, because Shinji seeks love in such a needy way and is so emotionally awkward, he does not, in the series and movies, have the capacity to love someone in a "real" way. I'm not saying he *couldn't*, but for now he only wants someone because they fill a certain need of his. Shinji can't see their needs, wants to take but not give. This isn't how he wants to be, but it's how he is. Such as in End of Evangelion, when he tells Asuka he wants to help her, but has no idea how.

As far as the significance of the kiss in episode 15 goes, I think it was part of Asuka's bid for affection, but there was some spitefulness in it, too, since Asuka often saw Shinji as a rival or simply disliked his attitudes. What Asuka felt for Shinji at that point in the series might have grown into love, but somewhere along the line it grew into hate in EoE.

Now, all that remains for my ideas is to figure out why Asuka would be attracted to Shinji...

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 23:22 GMT

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Postby tv33 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Incisivis wrote:Now, all that remains for my ideas is to figure out why Asuka would be attracted to Shinji...



Probley because he is the only one Asuka sees and an equal (relatively, no one is an equal in Asuka's mind, but he comes close,).

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 23:31 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Incisivis wrote:My non-refundable $0.02:
Furthermore, I think Shinji just might be able to fall in love with anyone if they gave him what he wanted. That is why, in my mind, he gets rather flustered around Kaworu; it's not part of Shinji's individual makeup to be attracted to males, but Kaworu was a way towards some of the things Shinji wanted. The barrier of emotional or physical incest would be much harder to break, but I think it could happen.

I also believe, because Shinji seeks love in such a needy way and is so emotionally awkward, he does not, in the series and movies, have the capacity to love someone in a "real" way. I'm not saying he *couldn't*, but for now he only wants someone because they fill a certain need of his. Shinji can't see their needs, wants to take but not give. This isn't how he wants to be, but it's how he is. Such as in End of Evangelion, when he tells Asuka he wants to help her, but has no idea how.



Are you refering to how he was at the end of the series? Because I think at the end of EoE was was different....he knew what he wanted, more than usual anyways, and understood that he can be happy if he has the will to live, this is the whole idea of why he came back in the first place. At this point he's not in that huge slump anymore and think he knows what he wants and not need to search for just any signs of emotionaly support that he needs

As far as the significance of the kiss in episode 15 goes, I think it was part of Asuka's bid for affection, but there was some spitefulness in it, too, since Asuka often saw Shinji as a rival or simply disliked his attitudes. What Asuka felt for Shinji at that point in the series might have grown into love, but somewhere along the line it grew into hate in EoE.

Now, all that remains for my ideas is to figure out why Asuka would be attracted to Shinji...



I agree Asuka had the somewhat the same problem as Shinji, that she didn't know how to express her feelings. I think with the help of what happened in the series that she grew to hate herself more than the others because of the facade of a tough person she let everyone seen and now could not show them her real feelings, especially Shinji.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 23:35 GMT

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Postby DufFuS101 [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Incisivis wrote:Now, all that remains for my ideas is to figure out why Asuka would be attracted to Shinji...



It could be that she knows that they both have a similar path, and perhaps she believe that she can depend of him to give attention to her. Also unlike his father, Shinji is mildly visually appealing. Not manly hansom like Kaji, but shows the clasic signs of a bishoen (Kawrou is more bishe but whatever). I'm a guy thought, as reading through quite a few threads I discovered that there is a large portion of the female population of EVA fans that just adores Shinji and just want to huggle him.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 23:46 GMT

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Postby saiyajin prince [ANF] » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:01 pm

Yea they are a couple of them.

Originally posted on: 10-Jul-2003, 23:51 GMT


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