The Wiki Thread (General)

[thewayneiac]

I also correct the spelling of Sohryu, which was missing the "y". I made the same correction in the Asuka biography, but in the text only. I couldn't figure out how to change the headder. Time to read the instructions.

Nice catch. Speling was never my strong point. Try moving the Asuka page to correct the miss spelling. If I rememebr correctly, that should automatically redirect all links to the old page to the new one. if not, try a manual redirect on the old page.

Edit: Actually, I'm not sure if the move function is available unless you're a sysop. In any case I moved the Asuka page. The move function automatically created a redirect from the older page to the new one. Remember that everything you do in the wiki can be reverted, so don't worry about making any mistakes.

Yep, that worked. Hey, this is fun! I noticed it was still mispelled in the link on the main page, but I figured out how to fix that myself. I also provided some of the missing Seiyuu names. (Only for the pages that already exist. I didn't try to create any new character pages just yet.)

[thewayneiac]

I succeeded in creating character pages for Kaji, Touji, and Kensuke. Great fun.

OMF: how do I make a template? I was trying to create a "Seiyuu Infobox" in anticipation of doing a bio page for each of the principal Seiyuus in EVA, but couldn't figure out how to make it work.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

OMF: how do I make a template? I was trying to create a "Seiyuu Infobox" in anticipation of doing a bio page for each of the principal Seiyuus in EVA, but couldn't figure out how to make it work.

Good work on the pages. I should really get back to doing something myself.

Creating templates is a little laborius, but here's the general idea of what's going on. When you call a template using {{MyTemplate:value1=stuff1|value2=stuff2}}, what happens is that Mediawiki goes to the page [[Template:MyTemplate]], and automatically generates the wiki code on that page, inserting "stuff1" whenever it encounters {{{value1}}}, etc then injects all that into the calling page. Exactly what it generates is based on what code you put in the template page.

The template need not even take values. The simplest example of a template on the wiki is [[Template:-]]. This is called on a page with the code {{-}}. This template simply inserts a "<br clear="all" />" into the calling page, which acts like a line break or somthing. If you go in to edit the page, you can look at its source code. You can also see that if you use the "<noinclude>" tags, whatever you put between them will not show up on the calling page, and can just be left on the template page to document things like examples, how to use, etc.

The Character Infobox template can be seen here. Unfortunately, the code had to use the Mediawiki table syntax, which can be a bit horrific the first time you encounter it. I'm also using the #if parserfunction for the image, but that shouldn't be strictly neccessary just yet.

To create a new template, go to the page Template:Seiyuu_Infobox and begin editing. Use the character infobox code as a starting point if you like. That's essentially the same code that the episode, angel and evangelion inforboxes are made out of too. Here's the main template help page if it's of any use.

Templates are a bit of hassle, but I think they're worth it, both for the effort they save and the overall project look.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

More on that in another thread.

A preexisting one, or one that needs to be created?

More appropriately, one that awaits your editorial attentions.

While other areas are moving ahead nicely, progress on the FGC itself has been.... somewhat stalled lately. The uploaded commentary awaits Reichu's perusal.

Also, an update. The FGC script text template has been updated to include a "speaker" functionality in the dialogues, and the Sound effect markup is now automatic. See these in action in the first ten cuts of the Episode #01 Commentary pages.

[thewayneiac]

@OMF

I see you fixed my Seiyuu template. Thanks. When it didn't work I thought I'd figure out why the next time I got on line, but then I got so busy with my job that I didn't use my computer for 3 days.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

Template creation is an archane and frustrating task. But it's worth it. Pages definitely improve from the application of templates. Here's an example of what was done with templates on one wiki.

Old Version
Current Version

Once templates were implemented there, there was a sudden torrent of activity, as all people had to do was fill basic values into templates to create informative and presentable pages. Admittedly that wiki was involved much more "statistics" oriented, but the idea of templates saving time and effort should be taken up wherever it is appropriate.

I'll try and make more templates as required for different pages, but this wiki will probably end up being composed of mostly hyperlinked text.

[Reichu]

Template creation is an archane and frustrating task. But it's worth it.

Think you're up to the long-term abuse?

I'll try and make more templates as required for different pages

Basically, "as needed"? Trying to forsee all of the applications in advance will probably be difficult...

but this wiki will probably end up being composed of mostly hyperlinked text.

Cross-references, you mean?

From the "Contestants" thread...

Before we begin though, there's two things that need to be finalised.
a) Image policy. I'm going to work on that right after this post.
b) We need a logo, (custom wiki skin can be held off for now).

What about (C) -- rough draft of the rules, which any editors who enlist could provide feedback on?

I also have an idea that would address some script issues. Is it possible to make Wiki pages that only editors and bigwigs can see? (And speaking of which, if the Wiki isn't "blocked off" to public viewing right now, it should be until the Commentary opens again, or something.)

And a couple of questions:

(1) Is it possible to directly link to an image's page, just in the text or something, without using a thumbnail? (I've still been too preoccupied to actually jump into Wiki business yet. What a lazy bum I am.)

(2) Is it possible to make certain blurbs of text ordinarily hidden by a "drop-down" function?

There also needs to be a wiki discussion subforum for editors to discuss things.

That's no problem. Stick it in "Covert Operations", make it visible only to those in the Committee and (upcoming) Scribes user-groups.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

What about (C) -- rough draft of the rules, which any editors who enlist could provide feedback on?

More your area than mine. These can only really be finalised after the chosen ones have cut their teeth on a few articles first.

I also have an idea that would address some script issues. Is it possible to make Wiki pages that only editors and bigwigs can see? (And speaking of which, if the Wiki isn't "blocked off" to public viewing right now, it should be until the Commentary opens again, or something.)

Easily doable. Remind me about this later. But for now, let everyone see the FGC pages, as we need feedback and opinions on their presentation.

(1) Is it possible to directly link to an image's page, just in the text or something, without using a thumbnail?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax#Linking_to_the_image_description_page

(2) Is it possible to make certain blurbs of text ordinarily hidden by a "drop-down" function?

You mean like the boxes here .(more info here) It's doable, but it will need people to have javascript on their browsers. Personally, I'm not a great fan of dynamic webpages, but if you have something in mind I'm sure it can be implemented.

[Mr. Tines]

It's doable, but it will need people to have javascript on their browsers. Personally, I'm not a great fan of dynamic webpages, but if you have something in mind I'm sure it can be implemented.

In this world of Web 2.0/AJAX/JSON it's getting less optional; but we should strive for the "Unbotrusive Javascript" ideal (see http://adactio.com/atmedia2005/ for what that's about). In the specific issue of "folding" pages (where some of the content expands or collapses), I'm not a great fan, because we already have infinitely tall scrolling. If we do have these, then having the hidden sections displayed by default, and style display:hidden; applied to their class by script in the <head> would be the way to go.

CSS based "tooltip" style popups on the :hover and :focus pseudo element are better, but browser support is patchy (IE only notices a:hover -- though that does work for link targets <a name="" />; I haven't experimented :focus, though it much better for accessibility for those without fine motor control).

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

With the image policy hopefully nearing completion, or at least nearing a readable state, and likewise for the wiki ground rules, our next concern before sending out initial summons should be the creation of the wiki(site) logo, and quite possibly discussion of the overall wiki custom style. I think these related issues should be brought up in another wiki style thread.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I've uploaded a very temporary site logo in case anyone was wondering. I'm testing a modified site layout with it.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I've been toying with the site layout using css sheets. Here is an image of what I've currently managed to hack together.

[URL=http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=evawikicsstestzu8.png][/URL]

As you can see (just about) the navigation bar has been moved from theside to the top. This leaves little room for a logo, and is an awful css hack which I'm certain will not run appropriately across browsers. We may end up having to change the php code altogether.

To be honest I'm not happy with the amount of space being taken up at the top, but I suppose it's rather unavoidable. Further work will require changes to the colour scheme etc, etc, but I am neither qualified or competant enough to make such choices.

Anyone wishing to try out, and modify, this scheme, can download the css file from this user subpage and upload it to their own similar user subpage. Once that is done, go into your preferences and select the "MySkin" skin, then refresh your browser ("Shift + Reload on Firefox"). You should then be using the skin and be able to modify it by editing your user subpage.

Here's a diff of all the changes from the standard monobokk.css I picked up to the current version. This should all be tested in various browsers, as I'm sure there will be countless errors. Nevertheless, we can use it as a temporary method to come up with a site scheme in the meantime.

[Mr. Tines]

This should all be tested in various browsers, as I'm sure there will be countless errors.

• Always good to check against the CSS validator at http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/
  
  
• As long as you are not striving for pixel exactness, getting things right in Firefox or Opera, and then adding conditional code for IE 5-6 is the best way to go. Things will be made easier because I've already used Dean Edwards' IE7 scripts on this site so we have (quoting from the commentary home page)
  
  
  1. minimal colour and font information for old (<<1% of traffic) browsers
     
     <link media="screen" href="support/nn4.css" type="text/css" rel="stylesheet" />
     
     
  2. fancy stuff including the support for the screen-top menus in modern standards conformant browsers
     
     <style type="text/css" media="screen">
     @import"support/std-screen.css";
     </style>
     
     
  3. Different styling for print
     
     <style type="text/css" media="print">@import"support/std-print.css";</style>
     
     
  4. The IE7 scripts, few minor positioning tweaks still needed to position the drop-down menus for IE 5-6
     
     <!-- compliance patch for microsoft browsers -->
     <!--[if lt IE 7]>
     <STYLE type="text/css" media="screen">@import"support/ie-screen.css";</STYLE>
     <script src="/ie7/ie7-standard-p.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
     <![endif]-->
     

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

[*] Always good to check against the CSS validator at http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

Incredibly, none of the errors were in the new changes... I think. Still, I'm not confident that that alone will ensure cross browser compatability.

As for the additional css sheets, do you think will it be enough to have multiple similar though tweaked files for various browsers, or will the site looking _substantially_ different in different browsers be inevitable?

This needs to be split into a wiki design(and logo) thread.

[Mr. Tines]

Still, I'm not confident that that alone will ensure cross browser compatability.

That is true -- but it ensures that our code, at least, doesn't rely on any browser-specific hacks.

As for the additional css sheets, do you think will it be enough to have multiple similar though tweaked files for various browsers, or will the site looking _substantially_ different in different browsers be inevitable?

Setting aside text-only browsers (including text-to-speech), there are only three sorts of browsers that matter

1) Adequately standards-compliant browsers (Opera, Firefox, Safari, Konqueror where we expect the users to update) and IE 7.

2) IE 5.5 and 6 (5 has essentially no presence any more, but we get it for free) -- almost fixed with the IE7 scripts. For the current design, all that is needed for IE pre-7 is

[code:1]/* ie-only styling here */
#navbar li li {overflow: hidden;}
#navbar li li ul {margin-top: -1.6em;}

#suppl:hover {margin-right:-9.8em;} /* 17-7.2 */
#suppl:hover ul ul {margin-left: 4.9em;} /* 9.8 / 2 */

/* omake -- IE7 scripts doesn't handle algorithmic content like content:counter(bullet, disc); */
.omake dt:before { content:"\2022 ";}[/code:1]

which, apart from the last, all have to do with tweaking the second tier of fly-out menus.

3) Hopeless browsers (NN4, IE4, which can't do sensible CSS positioning and shouldn't be asked to -- only colours and fonts)

[V]

I'm not too good with template infoboxes (I can put together something functional but I just never really cared about making them "pretty"...)

But just for the record, I have no intention of Wiki editing being public, or even "registered only". At least for the forseeable future, editors will be limited to a pool of selected individuals chosen by the High Council (and me). We'd, logically, be looking for dependable individuals who will generate good stuff, and have demonstrated in advance their ability to do so (via forum antics or whatever).—Reichu

Exactly. I think everyone here is familar with "Wikiality"? (a term created by Stephen Colbert). Letting lots of people on, without proving they can do it, just wrecks it. You should let lots of people on but....hmmm...well just integrate it with the messageboard; make it so that you've actually got to post like 100 times on the bboards or something (REAL posts that will be checked, not just posting 100 replies of "yeah" to get to 100)....the good thing is that wiki-addicts (by which I mean, the bad kind of, well "wikholic" who is more obsessed with wiki-code and wiki-rules than with actually talking about the material....given that most of the core people you want starting the job were on the Eva Commentary (which wasn't wiki based at all) that should work out REALLY well....

But yeah, just make it e-mail invite and make a sign basically saying "want to get involved? Check out suchandsuch thread on the bboards..."

As you can see, there's a lot of work to de done. (Not least of which is the theme and logo). I think the wiki has a lot of potential to a) host the commentary itself, and b) give evangelion, and the community, the wiki it richly deserves. It could greatly assist in emphasising the interconnection in evangelion as well as an archive of our collected musings.—OMF

Yup.

(my hope is of course, that one day Live Action Eva gets made (in all probability, being as popular as the Matrix trilogy or LOTR trilogy) and just as Peter Jackson and cast members would drop by TheOneRing.net's parties instead of post-Oscar parties, we'd end up with the Eva people coming to Reichu, haha...)

Who is a sysop other than Reichu and OMF?

Yeah.

While I'm on the subject: What's the full list of "High Council" members (as you put it) and full list of current EvaWiki users? And how does EvaMonkey fit into this? (What's the rank structure/chain of command, as it were?)

Would anyone like to volunteer for wiki membership? –OMF

Ornette, Ryousanki King and Mr Tines (gmail account) have been added to the wiki—OMF

Just pointing out that I begged and pleaded and did a whole song and dance about the need for an EvaWiki by EvaMonkey AND basically made up a whole mock episode guide to try to "prove" myself :) ....even If I speak no Japanese and only saw the series for the first time when it ran on Adult Swim.....

Also, this Wiki thing needs a name, doesn't it? "EvaWiki" is hopelessly generic. –Reichu

EvaWiki is good for now. I'd have liked something more ominious and "Gendo-like". That is, if this were "The Marvel Comics Wiki" I'd have called it "Project Wideawake" (the Sentinel project) haha,.....yeah just EvaWiki for now....

What about (C) -- rough draft of the rules, which any editors who enlist could provide feedback on?

[sarcasm]The Pirates' Code[/sarcasm]....we'll have to start a thread for that....I wouldn't want to impose against Reichu's plan....

[Ornette]

Also, this Wiki thing needs a name, doesn't it? "EvaWiki" is hopelessly generic. –Reichu

EvaWiki is good for now. I'd have liked something more ominious and "Gendo-like". That is, if this were "The Marvel Comics Wiki" I'd have called it "Project Wideawake" (the Sentinel project) haha,.....yeah just EvaWiki for now....

Random thought, so replying to this thread.

How about the Magi files? The Wiki itself can then be split up into 3 parts (categories), one for the basic episodes, characters, angels, etc. One for supplimentary pages like Instrumentality, Second Impact, Operation Yashima (I'm pulling this stuff out of my ass), differences between DC and OA, etc., and the last one for fan theories, interpretations, outside sources and non-canon, etc.

[V]

I don't think that would really work out

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

I'm not too good with template infoboxes (I can put together something functional but I just never really cared about making them "pretty"...)

I've had a fair bit of experience, and I'm sure that some other users will eventually be handy with them. Just let me know what you need and I'll see what I can come up with.

But yeah, just make it e-mail invite and make a sign basically saying "want to get involved? Check out suchandsuch thread on the bboards..."

To begin with, invites seem like a good idea. We can get a sizable pool of quality users to get the Wiki off its feet by this method.

Who is a sysop other than Reichu and OMF?

Yeah.

Just you at the moment.

While I'm on the subject: What's the full list of "High Council" members (as you put it) and full list of current EvaWiki users?

Check out the usergroups link at the top of the forum page.

And how does EvaMonkey fit into this? (What's the rank structure/chain of command, as it were?)

The Eva Monkey has never been very involved in the commentary for some reason. I suspect its a combination of his heavy workload, and Reichu's... commanding presence. He has made a few comments in the commentary, but not as many as we would like. I'm hoping he will consider writing some wiki articles.

But I suspect you're wondering why this site isn't on The Eva Monkey. As it turns out, the commentary was hosted on theevamonkey.com for a while, but had to relocate after it began consuming far too much bandwidth. At that time, there was no real plan for a wiki, and in any case, at the time, The Eva Monkey was very against the idea of one. Since we've decided on the commentary being hosted on Mediawiki, and tied to a full blown Evangelion wiki, and since the commentary has its own dedicated site, I don't think moving back, or amalgamating with theevamonkey.com is feasible.

This site is not meant to be another discussion forum. We are strictly about, The Commentary, The Wiki, and The Archival of Evangelion and the wider online forum communities. Which brings me to another point.

How about the Magi files? The Wiki itself can then be split up into 3 parts (categories), one for the basic episodes, characters, angels, etc.

I don't think the wiki should be split along these lines. However, this site itself, could perhaps be said to be split into three parts. As mentioned above, The Commentary, The Wiki, and The Archival of material. Perhaps we could come up with a logo based on this idea?

Just pointing out that I begged and pleaded and did a whole song and dance about the need for an EvaWiki by EvaMonkey AND basically made up a whole mock episode guide to try to "prove" myself :) ....even If I speak no Japanese and only saw the series for the first time when it ran on Adult Swim.....

That was me trying to cajole council members into signing up for the wiki. Enthusiasm for it was not great at the time.

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

(What's the rank structure/chain of command, as it were?)

Reichu is firmly at the top, not lastly because she is paying for the site!

Minionisters are next in line when it come to their specific sectors of the site.

Council members are next, but Minionisters are essentially council members when it comes to matters outside their sections. (Council members were originally supposed to have jobs of some decription, but it's looking like many will have only "advisory/board" roles for the time being.)

Ordinary site users (Minions) are at the bottom.

Bear in mind, anyone with a wiki account, should has a forum account. In fact, the latter should be a prerequisite for the former, as people need to be in the forum discussing project direction. People also need a forum account to comment in the commentary threads.