Are the angels actually aliens?

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Are the angels actually aliens?

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Postby Annihilator » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:57 am

I was waching the history channel about these UFO incounters. There was this on about these people on this farm and founds these floating triangle things. It reminded me a lot of Ramiel. heh. any thoughts?

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Postby tinmeigut » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:45 am

Not really aliens the angels are. 99.89% similar in genetic makeup, they're more cousins to us than aliens.
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:01 am

Strictly speaking, only Adam and Lilith are aliens, as they are extra-terrestrial. The Angels (specifically Adam's offspring, Angels #3-17) and Lilith's offspring (homo-sapiens) were born on Earth, so they're not really aliens.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:11 pm

Weren't the FAR "aliens"?
And just to make sure I understand that, Adam and Lilith ARE part of FAR or just descended from them? So they're descended from the same thing and just possess different Sources/Seeds Of Life?

Just making sure I have this down. ^^;
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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:16 pm

@Ornette: Just to nitpick, but the proper form of our species' scientific name is Homo sapiens. Genus name (Homo, analogous to a family name) is capitalized, and species name (sapiens, analogous to a personal name) is lowercase. Italics are proper notation, but you can theoretically get away with not using them. ;)

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Weren't the FAR "aliens"?

Very much so.

And just to make sure I understand that, Adam and Lilith ARE part of FAR or just descended from them?

They are entities created by the FAR -- "Seeds of Life", "Sources of Life", "Progenitor Beings", etc. -- with the primary goal of propagating forms of humanity on other planets. Their souls might have come from FAR individuals, but that's an unconfirmed theory of mine.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:22 pm

Heh, leave it to Reichu to reply to stuff that involves the Evas and Angels! ;)

Personally, I like the idea of Adam and Lilith's souls/bodies/whatever just being their own as opposed to coming from FAR individuals, mostly because we don't know anything about them to say and that just makes sense to me. *shrugs*
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Postby fadingreminder » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:37 pm

Not too sound all too entirely n00bish, but what is (a) FAR?

I don't consider the Angels to be aliens by the term that they're just big monsters from other worlds hell bent on the downfall of humanity. They are alien in that they're foreign to us. I'm also not sure how I feel about Adam birthing all the Angels. Some Angels seemed to have come from beyond the Earth's atmosphere and Tabris was born the day of Second Impact. I know that Angels (at least one of them anyway) come from eggs and that would give them time to hatch or whatever, but I always thought it was more like Adam calling the Angels more than popping eggs out all over Earth.

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Postby V » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:46 pm

@Ornette: Just to nitpick, but the proper form of our species' scientific name is Homo sapiens.


Homo sapiens sapiens

In a sense, but then again so are humans:

we're not entirely sure of the Angels after Adam (and Lilith) were "born" on Earth or what, but apparently so; either way it makes little difference.

Adam and Lilith came from the "First Ancestral Race" so both humans and Angels have a non-Earth origin.

I think of the FAR as like the Monolith guys from 2001: a Space Odyssey

the gist of things is that we only really found out about the "First Ancestral Race" through supplementary material (video games with mostly canonical sources).

These Monolith guys are your typical "Scifi Projenitor alien species"; they send out Lilith-like creatures to some planets, and these Lilith-creatures spread LCL, which is the primordial ooze life comes from, and it evolves into life forms more or less like what we'd consider "standard" terrestrial life. To other planets, they sent Adam-like creatures, who spread Angel-like life forms. The problem is, an Adam-creature and a Lilith-creature were never meant to land on the same planet; Earth originally had Adam, but then Lilith crashed into it. Thus, humans and Angels can never co-exist, but are IN A SENSE related to each other (the whole "humanity is the 18th Angel" thing...well if you define "Angel" as the hyper-powerful beings that come from Adam, not exactly, but they are..."kind of" from the same ultimate source (the FAR) still, there is a fundamental difference.

We get little hints about the FAR in the series, i.e. in the director's cut when they point out the second GeoFront under the Antarctic where they found Adam, which is identical to the one under Tokyo-3; Gendo points out that humanity didn't make the GeoFront, but an intelligence other than Man *did*. The two GeoFronts are also described as "Clearly artificial"
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Postby Reichu » Mon Jul 02, 2007 6:08 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Personally, I like the idea of Adam and Lilith's souls/bodies/whatever just being their own as opposed to coming from FAR individuals, mostly because we don't know anything about them to say and that just makes sense to me. *shrugs*

Here's where I originally proposed the idea.

fadingreminder wrote:WORDS

By all indications, Adam laid the fourteen eggs within the White Moon, gave them souls shortly before Second Impact, and then the eggs were dissipated by the subsequent XBOX HUEG explosion. (Tabris was left behind with Adam's embryo/egg/whatever for Seele to collect.) Further details can be found in some thread or another.

V wrote:Homo sapiens sapiens

I said species, not subspecies.
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Postby fadingreminder » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:29 pm

Reichu wrote:
fadingreminder wrote:WORDS

By all indications, Adam laid the fourteen eggs within the White Moon, gave them souls shortly before Second Impact, and then the eggs were dissipated by the subsequent XBOX HUEG explosion. (Tabris was left behind with Adam's embryo/egg/whatever for Seele to collect.) Further details can be found in some thread or another.


Still doesn't sit right with me... So Adam and Lilith have been on Earth for roughly the same amount of time, Lilith got on the ball and populated the Earth with humans; what took Adam so long to get started? Granted, we don't know anything about their thought processes or how long they usually take to operate, but it's still odd to me. Maybe it's just one of the ways Adam and Lilith differ... In any case, I still prefer to think that there are religious elements in Evangelion and not that it's just some crazy alien primordeal soup gone sour. Maybe I'm just stubborn.

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Postby V » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:49 pm

I'd say Adam got "slowed down", sir, by the gigantic tuning fork impaled in his back....which was of course, just an "accident" (no witnesses....)
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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:16 pm

V wrote:I'd say Adam got "slowed down", sir, by the gigantic tuning fork of enternal sleep impaled in her back....which was of course, just an "accident" (no witnesses....)

FIXED

fadingreminder wrote:In any case, I still prefer to think that there are religious elements in Evangelion and not that it's just some crazy alien primordeal soup gone sour. Maybe I'm just stubborn.


The people that made the show say you're wrong...

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Postby V » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:24 pm

"God-like aliens"...don't forget, "god-like aliens".


Like I said, like the "Lords of the Galaxy" who created the Monoliths in "2001: A Space Odyssey"....still religious stuff there.
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Postby fadingreminder » Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:49 pm

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:
fadingreminder wrote:In any case, I still prefer to think that there are religious elements in Evangelion and not that it's just some crazy alien primordeal soup gone sour. Maybe I'm just stubborn.


The people that made the show say you're wrong...
Yeah, yeah... I've heard they used it because it was cool or whatever, not really for any religious merit. Still, Eva is whatever you take from it and I take religion, philosophy, and life lessons. Besides, I don't say "religious elements" as in Christianity or Judaism, but more like how you can have a "religious experience" at a concert or while listening to a CD or watching a movie... More like just a divine realization or something.

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:02 pm

That doesn't make any sense. Your posts seem contradictory. Either you think the Angels are messengers from God per the Bible or you accept the revelations of the CI, which I might add Anno had a part in making.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:43 pm

I prefer this one:

"Toto, I'm afraid we're not on topic anymore".

But, c'mon, the question was answered fairly early in the thread. Not much left to discuss after that. :)
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Postby Ornette » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:47 pm

And it has absolutely no context in answering the question of whether the Angels were aliens. And no, the religious symbolism did not inspire NGE, Tsurimaki himself even said they would have used something else if they knew beforehand how popular it would have become in the west.

You either take what the CI says, which just supports the hints in the show, or you can have your own theory and find support for it within the show. But if you play the "religous" card, taking something from real religion to support a theory about the show, then people will call foul.

Oh, and to reply to an earlier post about Adam not "birthing" Angels 3-17:
ep24' plat subs wrote:And Adam, the progenitor of the Angels

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Postby fadingreminder » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:36 pm

Jeez, relax. If they were called "Vultures" instead of "Angels" it would've had the same effect on everyone.

For the contradictory posts, I'm not saying they were messengers from God or that I accept any revelation whoever made. I'm just saying the great thing about Eva, to me, is you can take whatever you want from it. Religion, stoicism, defeat, a wake-up call... whatever. That is off-topic though, so I apologize for that. For the supplemental canon statements that have been made about the FAR and whatever though, who's to say that isn't a response and change for the sake of regretting the initial use of religious symbolism? To me, this is like Star Wars when Lucas made Greedo shoot first though. While is apparently "canon" it isn't unusual to find someone not agree with it. The thing about Adam birthing the Angels that doesn't sit right with me though, is that means it was always known not only how many Angels there were, but apparently that Adam gave birth to Tabris and put his soul therein, which makes two souls of Adam... It just overcomplicates things and confuses me about everything.

Whatever though... That said, they're aliens. It's canon, so I can't argue with it... I just wish the supplements would've made things more clear instead of jumbling things up even worse for me.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:45 pm

fadingreminder wrote:The thing about Adam birthing the Angels that doesn't sit right with me though, is that means it was always known not only how many Angels there were,
Why doesn't that sit right with you? If a dog gives birth to a litter of puppies you know how many there are...

fadingreminder wrote:but apparently that Adam gave birth to Tabris and put his soul therein, which makes two souls of Adam... It just overcomplicates things and confuses me about everything.
He didn't "put his soul" within Kaworu. Kaworu was born similar to the other Angels but in the form of a Lilim. Seele captured Adam's soul (which flew out of his body after he exploded) and transplanted it in Kaworu. Apparantly they did a similar thing when Rei I died.

There's a lot of this funky meta-physical stuff in NGE that can be confusing (and not make much sense). But that's kinda the way the series is.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:52 pm

fadingreminder wrote:For the supplemental canon statements that have been made about the FAR and whatever though, who's to say that isn't a response and change for the sake of regretting the initial use of religious symbolism? To me, this is like Star Wars when Lucas made Greedo shoot first though.

The FAR was part of the original proposal for the series. Ergo, it wasn't something they made up afterwards.

I just wish the supplements would've made things more clear instead of jumbling things up even worse for me.

I know what you mean. But, if we had a big book written by Anno and the creative team behind Eva that answered, unambiguously, every question and plot hole we have about the series, none of us would be at this forum.


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