Rei Refused the Human instrumentality project ?

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Rei Refused the Human instrumentality project ?

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Postby Coded to the Core » Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:59 pm

Hey ,

Back to end of Evangelion , When Rei's final form dies and Shinji is shown sitting on the beach (sea of LCL) , Before he suffocates Asuka to regain the feeling of reality within his mind , Rei is shown floating or standing over the sea , Doesnt that some how mean that one of Rei's clone may have refused the project and came back like Asuka/Shinji did ?

I had some other questions , I gotta rewatch End of Evangelion sometime soon . -DVD-

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:18 pm

I just assumed the Rei at the end was just a bookend - like the one in ep. 1 when Shinji's on the phone before he feels Sachiel's shock-waves. I've often wondered if the "Rei bookends" are not actually Rei but a representation of Yui watching over Shinji in the form of Rei. I need to find more evidence to turn that into an actual theory though. But to answer your post: No, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with Rei and instrumentality.
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Postby Coded to the Core » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:36 pm

Wait a second, 1- How can you be so sure that Rei didnt refuse the instrumentality project ? There's more than one Rei in the show .
2- Why on earth would Yui send a Rei looking thing to watch over Shinji , That kinda makes her a god here and i believe if she really wanted to watch over Shinji then she would send her form not Rei's .
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Postby Ornette » Mon Jun 25, 2007 1:56 pm

Coded to the Core wrote:Wait a second, 1- How can you be so sure that Rei didnt refuse the instrumentality project ? There's more than one Rei in the show .
2- Why on earth would Yui send a Rei looking thing to watch over Shinji , That kinda makes her a god here and i believe if she really wanted to watch over Shinji then she would send her form not Rei's .

Physically there were dozens of Rei's in the show, but there was only 1 soul. Rei and Kaworu wasn't actually part of the collective conciousness of Human Instrumentality Project, they were there to more or less hold Shinji's hand during the process. Shinji decides to end instrumentality, Rei asks if he's sure, Shinji says yes, Rei ENDS instrumentality.

With instrumentality stopped, and no more collective conciousness, the only choice people have is to either exist disembodied (but not as one, since Instrumentality was ended) or to return. Individuals do not need to reject instrumenality, since it's already been stopped.

The narrative purpose of the Rei in the street in ep01 and the Rei over the water in ep26' serve as a "bookend". The first letting you know there's more to Rei than meets the eye, and the last giving you closure. Rei probably couldn't return if she wanted to, her physical body is dead and it wasn't made of LCL (Rei's being destroyed in tank, Rei's arm falling off because her ATF was weakened) so she wouldn't be able to re-embody like everyone else.

Another possibility for the last Rei is a reverse-transition-guide. Similar to how Rei apparitions appeared before the living and the dead in EoE when they were turned into LCL, it's possible an apparition appeared when Asuka was re-embodied from LCL (note that Shinji had been on the beach for some time). But this doesn't explain the Rei from ep01.


Oh also:
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Last edited by Ornette on Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jun 25, 2007 2:16 pm

Coded to the Core wrote:2- Why on earth would Yui send a Rei looking thing to watch over Shinji , That kinda makes her a god here and i believe if she really wanted to watch over Shinji then she would send her form not Rei's .
Because Yui's doesn't have a physical form anymore. Her soul is within Sho, but her body is - kinda - reproduced as Rei. Ergo we could say Rei's body is a representation of Yui (her relationship with Gendo and Fuyustuki pretty much convirms this). This Rei/Yui relationship is expressed over and over, and if you consider their relationship with Shinji, it's not impossible that "The Rei Bookends" are a symbol of Yui watching over Shinji.

I'm not suggesting that it can't also be Rei as well, just merely that - like a lot of things in NGE - it might also work on another level. Hell, it can also represent Lilith as well. Think of it like this:

Lilith = Mother of Lilim/humanity
Yui = Shinji's mother
Rei = Physical form of Yui with the soul of Lilith

All of this adds up to the two "mothers" watching over Shinji in the form of Rei.
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Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
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Postby Coded to the Core » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:32 pm

Ornette Coleman:

With instrumentality stopped, and no more collective conciousness, the only choice people have is to either exist disembodied (but not as one, since Instrumentality was ended) or to return. Individuals do not need to reject instrumenality, since it's already been stopped.


But all the human soul's that was wasted for the instrumentality didnt gain it's body form right ? Or do you mean that Shinji is not the last person on earth with Asuka ?

e narrative purpose of the Rei in the street in ep01 and the Rei over the water in ep26' serve as a "bookend". The first letting you know there's more to Rei than meets the eye, and the last giving you closure. Rei probably couldn't return if she wanted to, her physical body is dead and it wasn't made of LCL (Rei's being destroyed in tank, Rei's arm falling off because her ATF was weakened) so she wouldn't be able to re-embody like everyone else.


Yes quite a theory there , Totally fit's in . Thanks for Sharing ==+

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This furom is weird , I've seen the ugliest things being written by some idiot over the furoms that serve no purpose nor a point close to Evangelion and yet .. But when it comes to font's/colors It's a No NO ! , Maybe Eva monkey/Rachel should consider some rules that goes with humanity , Boy it seems no one really learned what is it to be human from NGE *no i am not being gay but your american culture is so homophoabic you gotta think 10 times before being marked as gay in your everyday cummunity for sharing your feelings*

Eva Yojimbo : You Confused the hell out of me there , But i really don't believe Rei's are Yui's soul vessels . If you say Yui's original form was lost so was Rei's During the Third impact and the Merging into the Final form (lilith) . So Rei's / Yui's Forms has nothing to do with it but the thing is why Rei Not Yui looking after him .

ilith = Mother of Lilim/humanity
Yui = Shinji's mother
Rei = Physical form of Yui with the soul of Lilith

All of this adds up to the two "mothers" watching over Shinji in the form of Rei.


Rei = Physical form of Yui with the soul of Lilith ? Isn't it Vice versa .. ?

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:43 pm

It seems that Rei was created when Yui's DNA (within Shogouki) mixed with Lilith's soul and the result was Rei 1. Rei has Yui's form because she's made of Yui's DNA. However her soul is that of Lilith. So what we have with Rei is a representation - of sorts - of 3 different people:

Rei's body = Yui's form
Rei's soul = Lilith
Rei as herself.

Think of it as combining two entities and getting a new, but different entity. This new entity contains parts from the previous ones, but nonetheless it is a seperate entity unto itself (I don't think I'm explaining this well).

Anno does this a lot in the series - that is using one thing to represent several things. In Rei we have a representation of Lilith, Yui, and Rei. So we can say that the "bookmarks" are these 3 beings all watching over Shinji.
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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Ornette » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:19 pm

Coded to the Core wrote:But all the human soul's that was wasted for the instrumentality didnt gain it's body form right ? Or do you mean that Shinji is not the last person on earth with Asuka ?

Shinji and Asuka are NOT the last people on Earth. Shinji returns right after Instrumentality ends. Time passes, enough time for Shinji to lose hope in others returning and sets up grave markers for the people he knew. Asuka returns, affirming what Yui and Rei told Shinji about others being able to return if they had the will to live. The implication here is that (some) others will also return if they haven't already.

e narrative purpose of the Rei in the street in ep01 and the Rei over the water in ep26' serve as a "bookend". The first letting you know there's more to Rei than meets the eye, and the last giving you closure. Rei probably couldn't return if she wanted to, her physical body is dead and it wasn't made of LCL (Rei's being destroyed in tank, Rei's arm falling off because her ATF was weakened) so she wouldn't be able to re-embody like everyone else.


Yes quite a theory there , Totally fit's in . Thanks for Sharing ==+

Well, not a theory, but an interpretation of the narrative.

This furom is weird , I've seen the ugliest things being written by some idiot over the furoms that serve no purpose nor a point close to Evangelion and yet .. But when it comes to font's/colors It's a No NO ! , Maybe Eva monkey/Rachel should consider some rules that goes with humanity , Boy it seems no one really learned what is it to be human from NGE *no i am not being gay but your american culture is so homophoabic you gotta think 10 times before being marked as gay in your everyday cummunity for sharing your feelings*

Both are against the rules, just so happens one is a lot easier to police than the other, but an update to the rules is also welcome.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:49 pm

All I gotta say in case it wasn't mentioned yet in this topic is both Bookend Reis are Rei III.
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And in 26', just to make this clear, just because Lilith's body is physcially dead does NOT mean her soul (Rei) is, too. Hence part of the reason we see in the final scene at all??


Lilith = Mother of Lilim/humanity
Yui = Shinji's mother
Rei = Physical form of Yui with the soul of Lilith

All of this adds up to the two "mothers" watching over Shinji in the form of Rei.


That's how I always thought of it. And (something Reichu pointed out, some...where) note how after Third Impact occurs, both mother figures end up keeping their distance from him, either Yui out in space or Rei watching him from afar.

In terms of the the reserve transition guide, I personally like that theory, though I think it was Shin-Seiki or Rachel that stated something about it is made of fail. Not sure what though. If its in terms of Rei appearing after Asuka is there, I really don't see what difference that makes. Eitherway, isn't Rei trying to get Shinji out of la-la land and let him know he's not alone anymore??


Rei and Kaworu wasn't actually part of the collective conciousness of Human Instrumentality Project, they were there to more or less hold Shinji's hand during the process.


Isn't that also the case with Yui, or not nessciarly because Shogoki became a Goddess due to having both SoL?? Afterall, we see her with Rei and Kaworu at Gendou's Induction.
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Postby Olin of Xephon » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:19 pm

For some reason a lot of the guff and what ifs I had floating around in my mind about the fabled Instrumentality Project just re alinged themselves after reading this thread.

Just a comment or a compliment, thanks guys.
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