The starting scene of Episode 25'- what's the use of it?

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The starting scene of Episode 25'- what's the use of it?

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Postby tinmeigut » Fri May 11, 2007 4:50 am

It's been some time since I last opened a topic- it feels good.

Okay, I'm not sure whether an exactly same topic has already existed, but from an old thread 'How might Shinji learn to love himself', I was prompted to think a question:

Why did Anno add that Room 303 scene to the movie?

Shinji is a coward indeed, I'm fully aware of it, but why would the director need to add such an obscene scene?
If all the world hated you, and believed you wicked, while your own conscience approved you, and absolved you from guilt, you would not be without friends. -Jane Eyre, Chapter 8

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri May 11, 2007 7:44 am

Think about everything Shinji has been through up to that point.

Rei has died and been revealed to be a clone.
Asuka has discintegrated to the point where she's been heavily sedated for her own safety.
Ritsuko has been jailed.
Kaji is dead.
Touji's lost his leg.
Shinji's friends homes have all been destroyed.
Gendo has completely alienated Shinji.
Kaworu has been killed at Shinji's hands.

Shinji's having a pretty bad month. I can't think of anything more appropriate that could happen at that precise moment to just make him feel even worse. Can you?

You may think it's obscene, but I think it's an important and integral part of the film.

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Postby Ejinathan » Fri May 11, 2007 7:50 am

I guess there's also were those people of Gainax want to show they knowledge about life. Even tought it continues in ep 26.

It's dificult to make a scene to get things explained O_o
even if you have nothing left, just try to smile.
Even Goku smiles when he's about to die:D

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Postby tinmeigut » Fri May 11, 2007 8:51 am

I don't think masturbation is a good way to express your sadness. Right Shinji has had a bad month, but I still don't see why he should do that to Asuka.
If all the world hated you, and believed you wicked, while your own conscience approved you, and absolved you from guilt, you would not be without friends. -Jane Eyre, Chapter 8

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri May 11, 2007 9:11 am

tinmeigut wrote:I don't think masturbation is a good way to express your sadness. Right Shinji has had a bad month, but I still don't see why he should do that to Asuka.

At your age, I thought the same way about the scene. But after some thought, it really makes a lot of sense, not to mention that there's a distinct thread of strangulation that runs throughout Evangelion, and masturbation is very similar to strangulation.

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Postby DatDude » Fri May 11, 2007 9:15 am

The Eva Monkey wrote:Think about everything Shinji has been through up to that point.

Rei has died and been revealed to be a clone.
Asuka has discintegrated to the point where she's been heavily sedated for her own safety.
Ritsuko has been jailed.
Kaji is dead.
Touji's lost his leg.
Shinji's friends homes have all been destroyed.
Gendo has completely alienated Shinji.
Kaworu has been killed at Shinji's hands.

Shinji's having a pretty bad month. I can't think of anything more appropriate that could happen at that precise moment to just make him feel even worse. Can you?

You may think it's obscene, but I think it's an important and integral part of the film.


You forgot his relationshio Misato had broken down too.

tinmeigut wrote:I don't think masturbation is a good way to express your sadness. Right Shinji has had a bad month, but I still don't see why he should do that to Asuka.


The boy was broken by that point and not in his right mind. To me at least it sets up the feeling of deep dread I get when Rei gives him control of instrumentality.

A neglected and wrecked child is literly handed the weight of the world.

In the end he at the very least came back showing that their is hope for him. And if that kid take the risk of being hurt to have a chance at life do the rest of us really have nothing to complain about.

Thats what I took from it anyway
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Postby tinmeigut » Fri May 11, 2007 9:44 am

Hey Eva Monkey how do you know I'm younger than you?

And how much sense does it really make? Please explain. Also, how is strangulation similar to masturbation?
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Postby Kaminoyouni » Fri May 11, 2007 9:48 am

tinmeigut wrote:how is strangulation similar to masturbation?
I don't think we wanna know the anwser to that one...
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri May 11, 2007 10:21 am

tinmeigut wrote:Hey Eva Monkey how do you know I'm younger than you?

http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42574#42574

Big Brother is watching you. :twisted:

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Postby Reichu » Fri May 11, 2007 11:26 am

tinmeigut wrote:Also, how is strangulation similar to masturbation?

Ever heard of "choking the chicken"?
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri May 11, 2007 11:58 am

All those horrible things that have happened to Shinji that DatDude and Evamonkey mentioned, Shinji's not going to be in the best mental state. That's the point of that scene, to show how rock-bottom he's hit.
Note how even after he finished masturbating, his words, "I'm the lowest of the low" implies IMHO that he feels EVEN WORSE THAN BEFORE.

And though Rei gives Shinji the power to decide what to do with "his world", the fact that he ends up choosing to live while knowing Instrumentality is wrong, DESPITE EVERYTHING---ALL THE PAIN, SUFFERING, AND BETRAYAL (inmo, only his preciption of things, as both EoTV and EoE point out: nobody "hates" him, HE wants to think that) HE'S BEEN THROUGH, that to me is beautiful, but that's a topic for another day. ;)
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri May 11, 2007 1:47 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Note how even after he finished masturbating, his words, "I'm the lowest of the low" implies IMHO that he feels EVEN WORSE THAN BEFORE.

Precisely. As bad as things have been, he went and did about the only thing he could have to make them worse.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri May 11, 2007 2:21 pm

The first few minutes of Air get to the basic themes -- sex and death. And Shinji manages to fumble both of them.

I'm sure someone could get all po-mo on that.
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Postby Ejinathan » Fri May 11, 2007 2:27 pm

Um... i more had the feeling he just couldn't hold his physical love for Asuka and that's why after the disgusting scene he says that he's the lowest. (didn't you people saw he was looking at her ... )Hormones are so dificult to handle at that age too... i wonder why u were thinking about strangulation.
(even tough it's possible that i misunderstood you're word here ... )
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Postby DatDude » Fri May 11, 2007 2:43 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:The first few minutes of Air get to the basic themes -- sex and death. And Shinji manages to fumble both of them.

I'm sure someone could get all po-mo on that.


po-mo ?
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Postby BrikHaus » Fri May 11, 2007 2:48 pm

post modern
Awesomely Shitty
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri May 11, 2007 2:55 pm

@Ejinathan
Some English language slang/euphemism for male masturbation likens it to choking (=strangling). As has been said before, EoE starts with Shinji choking his chicken and ending by choking his Asuka.


DatDude wrote:po-mo ?


po-mo << where feeling lucky at Google takes you.
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Postby Ejinathan » Fri May 11, 2007 3:04 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:@Ejinathan
Some English language slang/euphemism for male masturbation likens it to choking (=strangling). As has been said before, EoE starts with Shinji choking his chicken and ending by choking his Asuka.


K i've never heard that before about the chicken thing ... thx for clarification!
Last edited by Ejinathan on Mon May 14, 2007 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby InvaderRen » Fri May 11, 2007 5:49 pm

i personally dont think that the scene added anything to the movie besides "WTFrick?!"

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Postby DatDude » Fri May 11, 2007 5:56 pm

InvaderRen wrote:i personally dont think that the scene added anything to the movie besides "WTFrick?!"


Trust me Im sure anno wanting to leave us with one more mind fuck for the road had a lot to do with it
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