What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I thoughts!

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What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I thoughts!

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:00 pm

Since catgirls are dying in this thread, I'm taking the liberty of moving it to Discussion. --Reichu

Okay, first off, Please, people, do NOT turn this into a "Shinji & Asuka realtionship doesn't work" debate!

The main thing I want to ask, although it may be something of a "duh!" answer what with Yui-sama's famous quote, is this:

Do you think Shinji & Asuka, not can, but WILL find happiness together after Third Impact?

Yes, it would take a lot of work on their part with dealing (properly! eg, talk-therapy or some such thing) with the negative aspects of their personality that they want to change, while accepting the rest (Perfection is impossible, after all), but I think it would most certianly happen.

Despite this: (sorry, but you sum these things up 10x better than I ever could!)


Reichu wrote:What makes Asuka's story sad, for me, is that, when all is said and done, Asuka gives us no sign that she has learned anything from all that has happened, or done ONE SINGLE THING to change her ways. She decides to come back: Well, that's a start. But, aside from that, we get one confirmation -- ONE! -- that she has acknowledged her innermost feelings in any way. But she immediately dampens this achievement of the highest order with her final two bitter words, spoken "in the coldest voice possible".


Reichu wrote:Well, I certainly think he's still of the belief that he needs her in order for himself to be complete (isn't that what the Significant Other is?) -- the achievement of Complementation in a world where we can still be individuals. On some deep level, Asuka's caress implies that she feels the same way, however difficult that sentiment is to express due to her own problems in general. I probably don't need to say that her troubles extend FARRRRRRR beyond Shinji and, if not for them, their compatibility could be fully achieved. Looking at Asuka's greater moments with a fresh eye -- that is, where she isn't throwing her own psychological pus at Shinji -- says a lot about how these two really CAN get along. I think that's what Anno is really getting at, and why the anti-shipper attitude is missing the point.

Incidentally, this is also echoing humanity's failure with the Angels: "We neglected and rejected each other even though we're all human." Take it out of context, and, voila! Thematic pay-off strikes yet again!! :slap slap slap:



I think the caress is a symbol of hope, that she'll slowly-but-surely change for the better, as will Shinji.
I mean, the fact that she decides to live on again has got to mean SOMETHING, right?

This espeically, has got to mean SOMETHING, right?

EYED wrote:What is love, till it comes Home to you?


Discuss.

EDIT: Post edited for clarification.
Last edited by Sailor Star Dust on Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Timstuff » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:06 pm

Given that the whole point of Eva was about overcoming "the hedgehog's dilemma," it's pretty obvious to me that Shinji and Asuka getting together would be the culmination of that. There are obviously hardships ahead for them, but ultimately I think that they will find happiness.
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Postby TriLink » Mon Feb 12, 2007 8:54 pm

Yeah, umm, I think Asuka and Shinji would make a cute cupple cuz...kidding.

Can they find happiness together? I'm not so sure. I'm a Shinji/Asuka shipper through and through so I would like nothing better than for them to get together. Saddly in a messed up way I almost think of them as REAL people. However, I thought the point of Yui's quote was that Shinji (and Asuka as well) could be happy anywhere and DIDN'T need to keep looking towards each other for affection.

If you put a gun to my head and demanded a yes or no, then I would say no...they won't just because the odds are against it.

But I'm rootin for em anyway.
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Postby Timstuff » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:28 pm

Human beings are social animals, we need each other to be happy. So I took Yui's line to mean that Shinji can find happiness as long as he tries. After all, you can't just tell someone "be happy" and expect them to do it. You can tell someone how to find happiness, and in Shinji's case it's that he needs to accept that sometimes people will hurt him, but that doesn't mean he should shut people out all together.

In that sense, I think Yui's line is a confirmation that Shinji and Asuka can be happy together if they try. If Shinji keeps doing what he's been doing except that he now likes himself, then logically he would just become a self centered jerk who can't get enough of himself.

For Shinji to be happy, he's going to need to let other people into his life, and for Asuka its the same story. If they went into each others' lives, heck, loved each other, I think that they would ultimately find happiness. Like I said, they'd have problems, but that's part of binding yourself to someone-- accepting joint-ownership with each other's faults.

Yui's little speech was the indication that it's possible to find happiness, and Shinji finding Asuka is to show that they have an opportunity to try. And personally, I think that Shinji and Asuka would succeed in the end, despite what the "odds" are.
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Re: What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I though

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Postby Anonymous_Evafan » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:28 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Okay, first off, NO I DIDN'T MAKE THIS TOPIC TO START AN A/S DEBATE SO PLEASE DON'T EVEN DO THAT HERE! GRRR! >_< :whew:

Then this was a BAD topic to start! It wreaks of inevitable A/S debate. As such, I will not chime in with my opinion on the matter.
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Postby Timstuff » Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:33 pm

I've already chimed in mine, but I don't think I'll stick around for the aftermath. ;)
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Postby BobBQ » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:33 am

Frankly, I think it depends on whether or not anyone else comes back. If it's just the two of them in the long haul, they're screwed.

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Postby Szmitten » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:31 am

We're not supposed to think about it.

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Re: What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I though

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:39 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Okay, first off, NO I DIDN'T MAKE THIS TOPIC TO START AN A/S DEBATE SO PLEASE DON'T EVEN DO THAT HERE! GRRR! >_< :whew:

...

Do you think Shinji & Asuka, not can, but WILL find happiness together after Third Impact?


Could you try harder, young lady. You've not quite managed to
a) cover all my hot buttons, and
b) send me into a spin trying to reconcile contradictory statements.

So here goes.

Assume that Shinji's fondest wish was granted and that's his Stepford Asuka on the beach, and all could be love-love.

1) People return. The likely people to return first are those who have an eye to the main chance and see a first-mover advantage. They are not going to be nice people.

If Shinji's lucky, he just gets lynched. Otherwise, both he and Asuka end up as fucktoys. Some time in the next couple of years, she expires from abuse, miscarriage or childbirth. She suffers like that either way.

2) They remain alone. Plunder gives them a reasonable lifestyle, until some time in the next couple of years, Asuka expires from miscarriage or childbirth. Shinji slowly goes bonkers

Alternatively, it's Asuka as we know her. Scenario 1 plays out much the same, though Asuka may not last as long, or may get a quick and dirty lobotomy to reduce to the previous problem.

Scenario 2 probably ends in violence in a similar timeframe.

Weird-ass scenario: The two returnees are in perfected bodies maintained by willpower. What we see at the end repeats every day until their animating wills are broken, and two red dots remain locked in mutual hatred, until long after the sun has gone out etc.
Last edited by Mr. Tines on Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:42 pm

Jeez Tines, pessimistic much?

I'm gonna have to go wih BobBQ on this one.
He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

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Re: What Now in terms of Children 2 & 3...Post-3I though

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Postby TriLink » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:12 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:1) People return. The likely people to return first are those who have an eye to the main chance and see a first-mover advantage. They are not going to be nice people.

If Shinji's lucky, he just gets lynched. Otherwise, both he and Asuka end up as fucktoys. Some time in the next couple of years, she expires from abuse, miscarriage or childbirth. She suffers like that either way.

2) They remain alone. Plunder gives them a reasonable lifestyle, until some time in the next couple of years, Asuka expires from miscarriage or childbirth. Shinji slowly goes bonkers

Alternatively, it's Asuka as we know her. Scenario 1 plays out much the same, though Asuka may not last as long, or may get a quick and dirty lobotomy to reduce to the previous problem.

Scenario 2 probably ends in violence in a similar timeframe.

Weird-ass scenario: The two returnees are in perfected bodies maintained by willpower. What we see at the end repeats every day until their animating wills are broken, and two red dots remain locked in mutual hatred, until long after the sun has gone out etc.

Wow......That's depressing. :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Postby Ornette » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:41 pm

Actually, I'm with Tines on this one. In an imperfect world, that's likely what's going to happen unless certain special cases are met (for instance the "likely" people to return happen to like hanging out disembodied, or somehow Japan was the only place where people didn't re-embody and the rest (most) of the world had been back for a while and Shinji happens to return to a stable world, it's just that area of Japan that's been fucked up).

If that was reality, the odds are stacked heavily against them. But in a work of fiction, who knows what will happen.
Last edited by Ornette on Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:42 pm

Trigger's Elysium wrote:Jeez Tines, pessimistic much?


Oh, no. Those are the up-side scenarios.

I deliberately left out all the depressing and negative things, like the possible influences of disease, other medical emergency (e.g. appendix; or broken bones or septic lacerations incurred during a life of scavenging), chemical or radwaste pollution (what happened to Jet Alone when the GeoFront was ripped loose, or during GNR's collapse; let alone other civilian or military installations in Japan?), other natural disasters (typhoon, earthquake, volcanism; all especially enhanced by GNR collapse side-effects) and the like.
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Postby Trigger's Elysium » Tue Feb 13, 2007 2:57 pm

*shrug* I suppose you have a point.

Still kinda comes off as a bit pessimistic, but you know.
He was warrior and mystic, ogre and saint, the fox and the innocent, chivalrous, ruthless, less than a god, more than a man. There is no measuring Muad'Dib's motives by ordinary standards. In the moment of his triumph, he saw the death prepared for him, yet he accepted the treachery. Can you say he did this out of a sense of justice? Whose justice, then? Remember, we speak now of the Muad'Dib who ordered battle drums made from his enemies' skins, the Muad'Dib who denied the conventions of his ducal past with a wave of the hand, saying merely: "I am the Kwisatz Haderach. That is reason enough."

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Postby BrikHaus » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:34 pm

Most likely Shinji and Asuka will have the sex.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Feb 13, 2007 3:54 pm

@ AEF: What I meant is I don't want I repeat of these topics: http://evageeks.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=114&start=220

and that Locked Those Two, Again thread (which I can't find now :shock:)
in terms of pointless arguing back and forth on wheather or not they're a good couple. Sorry. Should I clarify my post?

Anyway, I personally think that Shinji and Asuka will become a couple, provided they "get their shit together"/work on their issues and properly, acutally do something to change the things they don't like instead of just bitching about it.

And in terms of any pessimism, I agree with BobBQ, HOWEVER I'd say things won't be that bad espeically if people will return, if live managed to go on for people post-2nd Impact, why not post-3I?


EDIT: My first post was edited for clarification. I don't know how else to word it but basically, talking about these two as a couple, wheather or not they're suited for each other, fine, but please no fighting about it! We all have different viewpoints on this, so let's just "play nice". ;)
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:10 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:and that Locked Those Two, Again thread (which I can't find now :shock:)


Try the Graveyard, where all lost souls, uh, threads, end up.


Sailor Star Dust wrote:HOWEVER I'd say things won't be that bad espeically if people will return, if live managed to go on for people post-2nd Impact, why not post-3I?


In 2I, the populous and rich nations of the north came through with some sort of continuity. Things were still together enough for there to be wars, rather than just banditry, even in the larger south-facing nations like India.

After 3I, no-one at all is at the switch, keeping the delicate fabric of modern civilisation together; return would be random, ad hoc, and, if Shinji is any guide, long after the Rapture. All the mechanisms abandoned in process would just carry on mechanically until abruptly stopped, one way or another. GNR as a Torino 9+ event aside, the effects on infrastructure would be at least as calamitous as a full out nuclear spasm.

Why do you think I like to separate the harmless and well-meaning nebbish Shinji of the series from the despicable little shit in the movie?
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Postby Ornette » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:11 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:And in terms of any pessimism, I agree with BobBQ, HOWEVER I'd say things won't be that bad espeically if people will return, if live managed to go on for people post-2nd Impact, why not post-3I?

There was still people and infrastructure around post 2I.

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Postby Timstuff » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:34 pm

No where is it written that Shinji and Asuka are the last people on earth. For all you know, almost everyone might have come back around the same time as Asuka.
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Postby The Bastard King » Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:44 pm

The A-Team will come on a boat and save their asses from the zombie-like hoard of 3I-returnees. Then, with only a chair leg, a roll of twine, and a bell, the group will battle their way through the masses in a bloody fortnight. Then they will establish a utopia of happiness inside the remains of NERV, safe from the chaos and pain of the outside world.

And some time in the next couple of years, Asuka will expire from abuse, miscarriage or childbirth.
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